dalman1
New Member
Reged: 08/09/05
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The Allen Police Department struck again! A police supervisor with almost 20 years of service has resigned amid allegations of dereliction of duty. Many may think that he must have thought he was wrong, so he thought he should leave. WRONG. The reason Officers leave under investigation at this agency is because discipline is heavy handed, unfair, biased, and often unwarranted.
I have posted before, but obviously no one cares. Ask yourselves why the Allen Police department has such a high turnover rate. Ask yourselves why only the tenured, most experienced officers are being terminated, resigning, and facing discipline after discipline. In the last three years The Allen Police department has forced the termination or resignation of Police Captains, Police Sergeants, Police Corporals, and Officers with many years of experience and training. Why is it that these experienced officers (who we WANT protecting us) can not be retained?
Maybe it's because the Allen Police Department stresses Internal Affairs activities rather than actual Police Work. I posted recently asking why this agency has THREE K9 Units (more than any other agency this size in the DFW area). Well they obviously took care of that. As there are now only TWO. What came of the third, you may ask? Well I am asking the same question. Are we to believe that all the money, time, training, experience, etc. was wasted on this Third K9 unit? Where is it? Why is not being utilized if it is needed so desperately. These are OUR Tax Dollars folks! Don't Fall for the Chief's "political" answer. Find out! Remember...where there is smoke...there is fire!.
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Webmaster
Member
Reged: 01/24/00
Loc: Allen, Texas
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dalman1,
This issue has been discussed more one than once before in these forums. Your initial goal of creating awareness about your concerns has been accomplished and your comments have brought replies from a wide range of readers and some have taken action on their own.
Local residents have asked questions. Some have contacted the Allen Police Department personally. The Allen Police Association has replied in these forums that they are involved in this matter, and other police officers have posted comments and expressed their views.
dalman1, I have contracted you personally via private message before, and have also posted in your threads, that my concern is that these forums are not the appropriate venue for you to use to take your issue to the next level. Your goal of awareness has been accomplished and not too much further can be served within the scope of these forums.
Please understand that if any member of these forums were to continuously post disparaging comments about any person or organization it would eventually lead to being interpreted as a personal attack which the forum rules specifically prohibit. Again, your goal of awareness has been accomplished. Please remember that I am not questioning the validity of your views, but please move on and stop placing these same recurring concerns. I�m sure you understand the nature about why there are rules and the importance they bring to organization and order.
Thank you,
Webmaster
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Allen finds it on. . . . Allen Online.Com!
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catlady
Member
Reged: 03/22/02
Loc: allen tx
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good job and well said webmaster -
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crochet_lover
Member
Reged: 05/17/05
Loc: Allen, Texas U.S.A.
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Why are dalman1's comments and concerns an attack? This poster feels his message or concern is of importance to Allen citizens. Webmaster comments as to the rules are below.
"Please understand that if any member of these forums were to continuously post disparaging comments about any person or organization it would eventually lead to being interpreted as a personal attack which the forum rules specifically prohibit."
The "it would eventually lead to being interpreted as an personal attack" line bothers me, as it sounds more like censorship for fear of legal issues for Allen Online.
If dalman1 has concerns, but is not able to bring them up in the politics of the organization, are we, the citizens of Allen, not supposed to hear about such instances? Even if his perception of such activities hints there may be a problem, maybe we should pay attention. The news is filled with stories about issues with corporate, city, county, state and federal organizations that need some public exposure to what is really going on. Why are dalman1's opinions and concerns wrong to bring up in a community forum?
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Webmaster
Member
Reged: 01/24/00
Loc: Allen, Texas
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crochet_lover,
I will try my best to address your concerns and questions.
I think you may have missed the aspect that indicates that dalman1�s concerns have been discussed numerous times in these forums. People have heard his views and responded. The Allen Police Association is also looking into the matter. Repeatedly bringing up the same negative comments when you say your goal is to inform causes me concern. Readers of this forum have been informed. If you want a further look at this issue they can be found in earlier postings.
Legal Concerns.
Please understand that Allen Online is a private business. We are not part of the City of Allen governmental structure. We have the same legal concerns as any business would have.
Censorship
Please review the forum rules. There is information about free speech and what is, and what are not acceptable postings.
You say, �The news is filled with stories about issues with corporate, city, county, state and federal organizations that need some public exposure to what is really going on.� I agree, but please understand that is beyond the design and scope of Allen Online and best left to media that is designed to publicly addresses these issues.
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Allen finds it on. . . . Allen Online.Com!
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MsAlyce
Member
Reged: 04/03/04
Loc: Allen,Texas,USA
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At the risk of bringing disapproval, I say I'm glad that dalman1 continues to post these updates. Maybe what you really don't like is the tone of his posts. I agree that other media usually writes about these matters, but I think since no one is, I want to hear it from some where. I agree with dalman1, where there is smoke there is fire OR alittle a smoke bomb Or maybe just a smoke screen. Please allow him to continue to post only with less attitude.
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Before & After Activity Center for Children 972/390-7162
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newguyapd
New Member
Reged: 12/21/05
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Fact: The Supervisor that Dalman is referring to admitted his wrongdoing to many people in the Department. He will be sorely missed and was an asset, however; he admitted it.
Fact: In recent days the Chief has made aggressive overtures to correcting the problems within the Department. He has publicly acknowledged that problems exist to those in the Department and in my view is being proactive.
Will all problems be fixed? Probably not, but he deserves the opportunity to take corrective action, and credit for making an effort to improve some of the processes he has been criticized for. Some of which I personally have pointed out in this forum also. Dalman certainly has a right to express his/her opinion, but that opinion should not be taken as Gospel because there are those of us in the department that can acknowledge the faults and still be honest enough to recognize positive changes too. Just my personal opinion, but Dalman is either unknowledgeable of the recent efforts by the Chief to improve processes, or is simply on a vendetta that has blinded him/her to anything positive from the Department Administration.
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sco
Member
Reged: 10/26/02
Loc: allen,TX USA
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I think sometimes people get so upset with a particular situation that no matter what happens they will be upset with it. For example, dalman complained that Allen had 3 K9 units which he considered unnecessary. Now they apparantly have gone down to 2 and he is mad about that.
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Susan
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SPENN
Member
Reged: 04/20/00
Loc: Allen, TX
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Well said MsAlyce. Dalman1 I sent you a PM.
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newguyapd
New Member
Reged: 12/21/05
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Dalman has raised several valid issues at times, but at the same time fairness demands that you acknowledge positive efforts by those you criticize.
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vrs
Member
Reged: 04/20/00
Loc: Allen, Texas
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I started a different thread in Everything Allen for my coments.....
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When you have exhausted all possibilities, remember this - you haven't.
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icemanwbb
Member
Reged: 04/19/02
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How long does the Chief get to fix these problems? He has been here a while now, and has previous experience in administration prior to serving Allen.
Just my two cents. 
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newguyapd
New Member
Reged: 12/21/05
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First solutions have to be arrived at, now that problems have been recognized. Then you have to implement the solutions. I don't know how long, but nobody should expect an "overnight" solution; that would be absolutely unrealistic. You're right, he does have previous administrative experience, but in my humble opinion that doesn't mean any time period should be attached. Trust me, we're happy just to have the recognition that there are problems from Administration. Time periods for corrections I suppose will be based on the collective patience of the people that work here.
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Concerned
New Member
Reged: 01/28/06
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I am thinking maybe five to six years is more than enough time. These are not "new problems" or "new issues". These issues have been brought to their attention on many different levels. Just my opinion.
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MsAlyce
Member
Reged: 04/03/04
Loc: Allen,Texas,USA
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Sorry to all, but I must agree. If it took me this long to fix a problem at my business, I'd be out of business.
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Before & After Activity Center for Children 972/390-7162
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SB
Member
Reged: 09/07/03
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The bottom line is, are most of the citizens satisfied with the service they get and are internal problems contained enough so that city management isn't continually drawn into the fray.
I've never heard of a private business that didn't have some dissatisfied employees or employees who believed that their opinions should determine policy - rather than those of company managers.
I also have never heard of a business that didn't have problems. There are always problems. Some get solved and new ones crop up. Some don't get solved and can threaten the existance of a business. Others don't get solved and just aren't that critical.
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icemanwbb
Member
Reged: 04/19/02
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it would seem to me that the cost attached to the hiring of new personnel to replace established officers would be of interest. Everytime a new officer needs to be hired for replacement, you have to test and train, therfore, putting the city behind the eight ball in terms of services rendered and the overtime budget.
it would also seem to me that you can only hear so much of any one problem, OR an aggregrate of differing problems before you have to start raising some red flags.
and...
if you will all remember a few years ago, these same issues were in the forefront of the public saftey bid for civil service.
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SB
Member
Reged: 09/07/03
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I'm not trying to pretend that there are not problems. It struck me that the issue was being framed as - problems should always be solved within a specified timeframe and that businesses always resolve problems. More experience is often better but less experience is often good enough. Its common to hear police officers in any city being critical of their chief. These officers are confident and outspoken men and women. But somebody has to run the show and not everyone will agree on how it should be done.
Allen could improve its officer retention simply by raising salaries because there are other neighboring cities that do pay more. Get experience in Allen and move on . . . Is turnover such a problem, affecting public perceptions of service, that taxpayers are willing to pony up the extra money from their pockets?
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Concerned
New Member
Reged: 01/28/06
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The problems are not in the fact that neighboring cities pay more. Many experienced officers of rank have left and gone to other cities, taking as much as a $10,000 to $15,000 cut in pay to change agencies. A Sergeant cannot leave Allen and start at another agency as a Sergeant. It is unlike most other industries. Yet the years of experience and the amount of training paid for by your tax dollars is staggering.
Changing departments is also a lengthy process - often 3 or more months. Many officers love the City of Allen and are still doing a excellent job in spite of the pressures that they are faced with from their own administration.
Speaking out is not tolerated by this administration. These guys are taking risks by posting anything. Many fear going into too much detail could be detrimental to their chosen career and the livelihoods of their families. They see what is going on inside the APD, but have no recourse except to vent here and hope the right people will ask the right questions.
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RWK
Member
Reged: 09/18/03
Loc: Allen
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There was an artical in the Dallas Morning News the other day about the shortage of police officers in Dallas. It said they can't find enough officers and were short several hundred officers. It sounds like other cities have the same problem as Allen. Every business has employees that are unhappy with there job and think the management does not run the company the right way. It always been that way and will always be that way. Employees come and go in all types of jobs not just the Allen Police Dept and for all types of reasons. Alot of times when someone is fired they will not have anything good to say about there old employer. That is just the way it is. So if the bad Info is coming from a pissed off employee I wouldn't take much stock in what he is saying is true.
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icemanwbb
Member
Reged: 04/19/02
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i think that it is unfair to even compare Dallas to Allen. it is common knowledge and common sense that better paid suburbs will rob the big cities of their employees. what is going on in Dallas right now is apples to oranges compared to Allen. but, what is easily comparible is..
issues have remained the same for many years now...
how long is long enough...????
if you have a problem fix it.
what is the time frame, what is the history?
if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck...
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RWK
Member
Reged: 09/18/03
Loc: Allen
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I have lived in Allen since 1989 and until this post about the problems of the Allen PD I had no clue there were anything was wrong. Has this issue been talked about in earlier posts? I have been reading Allen Onling for many years and don't remember seeing any thin about it. As for comparing Dallas to Allen there are other small cities that have similar problems. Plano is also having problems finding officers and they pay pretty good. I would bet all cities have some sort of internal problems. As for how long it takes to solve the problems, I couldn't tell you. In the last 3 years I have had to call the APD about 20 times because of lousy neighbors. Their response time has been within 2 minutes and it has been all times of the day. I have no complaints as to the job they are doing. When I call and don't get a response then I will worry about them. I remember awhile back someone was complaning about there are not enough officers on the street. I seem to see them every where I go at all times of day.
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icemanwbb
Member
Reged: 04/19/02
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Well, I guess there is nothing to discuss then.
We must all just be wasting time.
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MsAlyce
Member
Reged: 04/03/04
Loc: Allen,Texas,USA
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RWK, my understanding of the problem from all the telephone calls and pms I have received is that the officers have tried to address this problem within the APD but have not been heard. Some present and past officers have now decided that it is time to let the citizens of Allen know their frustration, so some have written here. They are assured their anonymity, and they can let others know what is happening within the APD, at least their side. Dalman, feels he can't let the administration know who he is because he feels he will be retaliated against and he will be brought up on charges, and dismissed. He sincerely believes that much of what is occuring within APD is retaliation driven. Where do you want him to turn? Who should he be talking to?
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Before & After Activity Center for Children 972/390-7162
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RWK
Member
Reged: 09/18/03
Loc: Allen
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I really don't know what can be done about the problems at the APD or if there are any problems but I can't believe the Police chief who is the top man in the dept has that much power. Can't he be fired also? Can't the City Council or the Mayor do something to fix the problems. If enough Citizens complain you would think they would do something and try to resolve the problem. I'm just like Fox News say's, Fair and Balanced. I will listen to both sides and then come to my own conclusions on the situation. It might not be the favorite one but it will be the one I think is the right one. If I go the City or to the Police Dept. to get some answers will I be retaliated against? I' not an expert on the situation but just a concerned citizen. I read the Allen Online because I want to know whats going on in the City I live in. I would like for more Citizens to post here with there opinions and maybe we can find a way to resolve this mess and give me more understanding of the problems and possible fixes.
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Tami
Member
Reged: 10/25/05
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RWK, yes, the police chief has that much power.  And I know nothing about the problems inside the APD but I don't doubt them. I was under the assumption that most police departments DO have problems. I know Dallas, Plano, DeSoto and Denton do. Hasty generalization? Maybe, maybe not.
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Tami
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newguyapd
New Member
Reged: 12/21/05
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RWK it's good to hear that you're fair and balanced, and I'd like to believe I am too. I've addressed some problems that we've had in this and other forums. I've talked to Officers from many different agencies in the Metroplex and each has their own set of problems, some similiar to ours. The Chief has been proactive in listening to our concerns and in my book deserves alot of credit for that, in some agencies you wouldn't even get that much of a response. It seems as though some people don't want to accept that and continue to lambast him instead of allowing him a chance to fix things. Right or wrong, I don't think he was even aware of some of the things going on with those subordinate to him, but supervising us. I believe he'll fix some of those problems. Only time will tell if I'm right or wrong myself.
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civicminded
Member
Reged: 04/24/02
Loc: Lone Star State
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Generalization, maybe. Hasty, maybe not. Issues in most Departments, definitely true.
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apdvet
New Member
Reged: 12/21/05
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Make no mistake New Guy the Chief knows everything that goes on at the department. When his back is aginst the wall he always states that he did not know and/ or puts it off on his lower ranking supervisors. He makes this kind statement to you and other officers so that it will give him time and maybe (in his eyes) the problem will just go away. All I am saying to you is keep an open mind and dont let him bluff you.
Edited by apdvet (02/08/06 06:06 PM)
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Concerned
New Member
Reged: 01/28/06
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Well said apdvet.  I was just going to say that maybe newguyapd is on his first round of "I didn't know, I will take care of that". Time will tell. I hope for all concerned that it will get fixed, however, what is going on is nothing new to people who have been around for awhile (5 years or more). Thanks for your input!!!
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