I've told you guys in other threads that the Water Conservation Lady is mean. It's like she's trying to win some sort of Blue Ribbon from the water district or something. Common Sense out the window.

Government waste and red tape infuriates me. There is no reason for all of those stupid, money-wasting hoops to jump through.

BTW, I've only seen Twin Creeks water their common areas on a Monday, which is trash day here. I haven't noticed if they do it every other week or not, I just noticed it for the first time this week. They did say in their bulletin that they were waiting to replace some landscaping with drought-tolerant plants until after water restrictions are lifted. At the same time, they placed some sod plugs along Twin Creeks Blvd the other day…

I was talking with some neighbors, and none of them were aware that we can't hand water and we aren't supposed to be replacing our sod. So there's that.

Officer was sitting right in front of a computer (looking at CNN or was it fox news) and seemed to be completely incapable of entering the information DIRECTLY into the whatever uber water ticketing system the city bit into. No we need to waste hours of city time not to mention the completely valueless time of our dear citizen so Mommy water overlord can maintain her fife-dome.

Charge on water princess!!

Just carry around a micro shrub from lowes with you and keep moving it around your lawn as your water.

• DrivinTooFast Said:

Seriously! You admitted that you were watering at an inappropriate time. Your were ticketed. No need to disparage city workers doing their job.

Complain to the city council, your councilman, the water works dept head etc...but I see no need to disparage one of your neighbors who happens to be doing their job.

The sad fact that you are NOT the problem, as you practice water conservation at your home, and it is likely embarrassing to you that you were ticketed, not because you were intending to water at the wrong time, but because the timer was not set properly due to a recent power outage.

I have gone to manually watering on my every two weeks water day...which will hopefully keep me from being ticketed.

Hardened water criminal.

10,000 gallons of water being flushed down a faulty toilet has the same impact on the water supply as 10,000 (almost a pool's worth of water) gallons being flooded onto my lawn.

Web site says once per week. Again ... McKinney has been on once per week watering since the previous drought when Lavon was 12 feet low. So while surrounding communities had gone back to twice per week stage 2 rules, McK stayed on stage 3.

• Al C Said:

Not sure what you're saying. Allen been on twice a month since last year. Stage 3 .

You are saying, wonderful Mckinney is once a week?

Or just don't water, like we do.

Hardened water criminal. I hope they lock you up and throw away the key.

I agree - if you are watering on the wrong day - pay the fine. The thing that get's under my skin is the violators. I wish the city would monitor this site and hear our complaints. I've done every I can to save water including catching the water from my shower in the morning waiting on the hot water. The city needs a hot line or web site to report violators and TICKET THEM QUICKLY.

• Al C Said:

I JUST got that joke - that's funny Culligan man.

Yeah, we pretty much don't water, either.

The city definitely needs to back down a little from their procedure on these tickets. It's hardly a violent crime.

Brad

What good would it do to call the city to report the city is violating the illegal water restriction rules?

The city can't prevent retail from selling fountains or water toys or cool weather grasses.

Wow...They hit you with a class B, as a first offense to watering your lawn at the wrong time of day?

No warning notice before this incident?

Now I have to go to the court to determine my plead.

Uhmmm - Not guilty, see you in court.

Examples of Class C Misdemeanor Crimes

The following are examples of common Class C Misdemeanor crimes:

certain types of assault
aiding suicide
leaving a child in a vehicle
criminal mischief
reckless damage or destruction
criminal trespass
theft, if value of property is under $50
issuance of bad checks
illegal recruitment of an athlete
insurance fraud if value of claim is under $50
false reporting of missing child or person
disorderly conduct

Now I have to go to the court to determine my plead.

Uhmmm - Not guilty, see you in court.

Examples of Class C Misdemeanor Crimes

The following are examples of common Class C Misdemeanor crimes:

certain types of assault
aiding suicide
leaving a child in a vehicle
criminal mischief
reckless damage or destruction
criminal trespass
theft, if value of property is under $50
issuance of bad checks
illegal recruitment of an athlete
insurance fraud if value of claim is under $50
false reporting of missing child or person
disorderly conduct

Good Morning Mr. XXXXXXXXXXXX,

Thank you for taking the time to inquire about our water conservation efforts here in Allen. We work really hard to conserve this valuable resource, and we truly appreciate the efforts and resiliency of our residents to do the same.

If you visit our website, you will be able a great deal of find information regarding general Water Conservation. This link, http://www.cityofallen.org/index.aspx?NID=1080 is a good place to start.

To answer your question more specifically, the City Council adopted the current WATER CONSERVATION AND DROUGHT CONTINGENCY AND WATER EMERGENCY RESPONSE PLAN FOR THE CITY OF ALLEN, TEXAS back in 2008. The document can also be found on our website, but for your convenience here is the link - http://www.cityofallen.org/DocumentCenter/Home/V ie... . Please refer to section 11.8 titled “Procedures for Enforcing Mandatory Water Use Restrictions” which outlines the process to which you inquired.

Our Water Conservation Manager, Gail Donaldson, is a tremendous resource for more specific questions regarding water conservation. She can be reached at 214-509-4559 or [email protected] .

Please let us know how else we can be of assistance.

Kindest Regards,

Rebecca Vice, MPA
Executive Assistant to the City Manager

He said,"We want it that way"... "We want to make the process difficult so people will not violate the water policy".

Right now, if I was running off the city's system, I would water the HE double hockey sticks every two weeks to make up for the two week drought my landscaping was going to be legislated to by the water princess. I would water on thursday even though it rained on wednesday because my next time to let the liquids fly is two weeks away. This scarcity behavior makes people water MORE on their watering days because they feel they have to in order to keep their plants alive.

You admitted you were guilty. You said the wrongful watering was caused by an electrical problem with your irrigation system. So, why trash all these city employees for a problem you caused? That's just wrong. The water problem is real ans could very well get much worse. There isn't room to be generous and excuse every violator who feels they have a good excuse.

You admitted you were guilty. You said the wrongful watering was caused by an electrical problem with your irrigation system. So, why trash all these city employees for a problem you caused? That's just wrong. The water problem is real ans could very well get much worse. There isn't room to be generous and excuse every violator who feels they have a good excuse.

DTF:
I am not questioning your reasons for having problems with the City of Allen. I understand how anyone can feel frustrated navigating through any city' structure. And as an American you have every right to question the system supported by your tax dollars. But I am asking you to please not belittle city workers for following the procedures required by their job.

In one of your earlier posts you mentioned a city worker number or name or something. This is not in good faith with the forum rules concerning privacy. Yes, public information is okay to post, but on these forums we choose to have private information protected. This why you can post your opinion here and select whether you want to list your real name or be anonymous. I have deleted these references to the city worker and ask that you please refrain from further occurrences. Thanks for your cooperation in advance.

The watering situation is terrible for all. For myself, I have taken the advise or some of my fine neighbors in these forums on how to combat the assault on my landscape. Check it out you may find it helpful.
See this topic

I bet the city wished, as do we, that we did not have drought conditions at all. Please be prepared that it could get worse before better. The weather is hot and we all know which direction the temperature is going. Please remember the one temperature we can control is our own personal temperature.

When there is an assumption that local government staff are a bunch of mindless bureaucrats then there is a breakdown of civility and citizenship.

• Community Manager Said:

Of course you have the right to publicly confront your accuser. What you don't have is the right to do is anything you want on this website. Re-read the Forum Rules. In addition, do not try and circumvent these rules with your cute little math formula. This approach to a person's privacy has been in place for 16 years and it is respected by thousands of Allen residents during this time.

Leave the names and numbers and descriptions of the city workers out of your quest to bash the city's watering requirements. Especially, the workers that had nothing to do in writing these provisions.

When I read about your situation with the AM/PM debacle, I though after the initial shock, your emotions would be directed to explaining your situation in an understanding manner to the appropriate people at the city. Your situation seemed like an honest mistake to me. However, with the approach you are taking you may find it difficult to get a sympathetic ear.

Your approach and position is your business. And, I do wish you luck going through the system and hope for your sake that the powers that be understand what happened.

Please follow the guidelines for these forums.

Thank you

Is it civil to make the process as painful as possible?

Is that the mark of a good government?

There is a breakdown....and it is at city hall.

I'll suggest that the problem is a water shortage. The problem is worsened by folks who choose to ignore the conservation restrictions because they are special or because they don't understand the consequences of the shortage getting worse. The City Manager doesn't have time for personal conversations with 90,000 people about this issue and so there are city staff tasked with explanation and enforcement. These folks are trying to insure that all of us have water to use come September and October.

• pup Said:

I'll suggest that the problem is a water shortage. The problem is worsened by folks who choose to ignore the conservation restrictions because they are special or because they don't understand the consequences of the shortage getting worse. The City Manager doesn't have time for personal conversations with 90,000 people about this issue and so there are city staff tasked with explanation and enforcement. These folks are trying to insure that all of us have water to use come September and October.

Monday I'll head into the muni building to get my day or at least date in court. I cannot have a reclaimed water sign due to HOA restrictions. Nor am I confident the city would even care.

If she's using reclaimed water, she should be able to water whenever she wants. The water coming from her sprinklers isn't coming from the water towers around town. So the restrictions don't apply to her. By not running her sprinklers, the only water she's conserving is the water in her own tanks.

SB, did you turn the water off at your main yet?

but my experience in the public sphere is that too many people lie to avoid fees, penalties, and rules they don't like

It doesn't matter if the timer malfunctioned. I believe DTF when he gives that explanation. The relevant fact is that the irrigation system was operating outside of approved hours. I also agree that his system as described sounds ingenious. Practically though, regulation and penalties are necessary because without, not enough folks would try to conserve and we would run out of water. Practically, 25,000 variations/exceptions of conservation regulations is not manageable so the city needs to rely on a one size fits all conservation program. A regulatory problem with DTF's system is that it can draw either from city water or from a stored reservoir of rain water. There is no way to know where the water is coming from except to trust the property owners word. I believe DTF but my experience in the public sphere is that too many people lie to avoid fees, penalties, and rules they don't like. Water conservation, now, is too serious to let folks do as they wish. I don't like this knee jerk condemnation of city staff. It is not warranted, unproductive, and usually mindless. At the same time I'm rooting for DTF in his hearing.

It doesn't matter if the timer malfunctioned. I believe DTF when he gives that explanation. The relevant fact is that the irrigation system was operating outside of approved hours. I also agree that his system as described sounds ingenious. Practically though, regulation and penalties are necessary because without, not enough folks would try to conserve and we would run out of water. Practically, 25,000 variations/exceptions of conservation regulations is not manageable so the city needs to rely on a one size fits all conservation program. A regulatory problem with DTF's system is that it can draw either from city water or from a stored reservoir of rain water. There is no way to know where the water is coming from except to trust the property owners word. I believe DTF but my experience in the public sphere is that too many people lie to avoid fees, penalties, and rules they don't like. Water conservation, now, is too serious to let folks do as they wish. I don't like this knee jerk condemnation of city staff. It is not warranted, unproductive, and usually mindless. At the same time I'm rooting for DTF in his hearing.

Constructions of new lakes also requires rain.

And why would I even think of disconnecting my water supply? What an odd comment.

Also interesting seeing how much water the City of Allen is using to water a 8' strip of grass in the median of Exchange EVERY SINGLE MORNING.

Do as I say, not as I do.

Settle down.

• mwestfall Said:

Exactly. We can't plant new sod, but they can put it in a median where no one will use it...AND water it. Complete bull.

The drought is only a small part of the problem. The real problem is planning. The people at the water district have totally screwed up for 20 years, and they are taking it out on us. Its ridiculous.

If your sprinklers aren't on City water, you should be able to water whenever you want for as long as you want.

Why not redirect the efforts of the people to saving water that people don't realize they are wasting, instead of wielding power and control over the "little people" and putting Class B Misdemeanors on their records.

DTF, I'd still consult a Lawyer. Bring the big guns. You're fighting this for all of us.

Nothing disputable said here. Sterling, curious to what you find inaccurate in her statements?

It's all on an honor system anyway when we do or do not water ...

• Al C Said:

It also requires the taking of other people's land.

I received my court date...... Clerk seemed surprised I was challenging the ruling and not just paying the fine.

July 19th.

Courts must be backed up from all the water violations. Mr. City Manager, this is going to be a long 5 weeks for you and your water department.

How does another's violation excuse DTF violation? I don't think the analogy works at all. Better is to show that X is allowed to water off date because they use their own water and that is what DTF was doing with his system.

In my opinion, I think he should water only on the defined day, using his system or not. It probably causes a lot of headaches for the city when someone is watering on a day other than the one defined for their area. They probably have to deal with calls from neighbors, send out employees to check, fill out the paperwork, etc...

If the city was to create a database of people who use their own systems, and those people are required to place signage in their yard indicating this, then I could see watering on an off day being allowed. This may even cause others to do the same.

In my opinion, I think he should water only on the defined day, using his system or not. It probably causes a lot of headaches for the city when someone is watering on a day other than the one defined for their area. They probably have to deal with calls from neighbors, send out employees to check, fill out the paperwork, etc...

If the city was to create a database of people who use their own systems, and those people are required to place signage in their yard indicating this, then I could see watering on an off day being allowed. This may even cause others to do the same.

• SB Said:

He will have to prove that he was using "his" system, that will be pretty hard to do. After all, he did say his timer was off schedule.

• ChrisH Said:

Signage can be a problem in some of our HOAs. At least is in in my HOA.

The violation is for watering on an unauthorized day. It doesn't sound as if there is a dispute about this and the proof is probably first hand observation. YOU are claiming extenuating circumstances and asking for the violation to be excused. It would seem that the burden is on you.

(Still, hoping that you are able to prevail)

...saves me 300 bucks...

10 year old device. Just set all the times for whatever zones but NO days. Then the day that is allowed go switch it to the designated holy day. Then the day after that holy day switch off. Works and saves me 300 bucks. Not an engineered egotist, just someone with a little logic to pass on.

Just an idea to toss around, as it seems the NTMWD and the city's only conservation plan is to let your landscaping die.
Scenario 1-My watering day is every other Friday. Let's say, rain is in the forecast for Saturday and Saturday night. Not wanting to take any chances because it would be another two weeks before I could 'legally' water, I have to water on Friday. Simply cannot risk not to. Then, lo and behold, it rains on Saturday, enough that would normally be a good soaking for my yard.
Now I just watered a day using city water that I could have avoided. Now multiply that by tens of thousands.

Scenario 2-My watering day is Friday and rain is forecast for Saturday. I hold off watering and then, as frequently happens, the forecast was wrong. Legally now, I would have to wait two more weeks, which would make it 4 weeks between watering.

Solution-If you hold off watering on your scheduled water day, then it doesn't rain, you get to water the next day legally without fear of being busted. No more water would be used than would have been used two days before, so no additional water usage above the norm.

It's all on an honor system anyway when we do or do not water, but think how much water could have been saved if you were given the window to hold off for 24-48 hours to see if we get rain. At least it's an alternative to the current senseless plan we have.

Tomorrow night the council is considering a variance to allow hand water of lawns for up to two hours daily. This morning I emailed your idea to the city. Hopefully it will be given some consideration.

• readingu Said:

Not a bad solution. I had not thought of taking all the days out of the programming. The only problem is I use 3 shorter watering cycles (as resommended) to reduce runoff. Our clay soils like to be watered slowly over long periods of time. If you run your heads for more than 5-7 minutes continuously, the soil cannot absorb the water fast enough. So I spread my total watering time out over three cycles.

But not a bad way to semi-automatically water.

• DrivinTooFast Said:

From the city's website, "Limit landscape watering with sprinklers or irrigation systems between November 1 and March 31 to once every two weeks. At the request of the NTMWD, we will remain at once every two weeks watering through July 5, 2014.

Since you use 3 short cycles on your watering day, I wonder if the "watering police" would consider that a violation? I could see them taking a hardline approach and claim you are watering 3 times....

Restrictions without enforcement or penalty will not likely achieve the desired conservation goals.

Water is a different public good than water and can't be priced out of anyone's reach. I can live without electricity even if I'd be unhappy and miss the modern conveniences it allows. I'd die without water.

Allen does have a water rate structure with tiered rates that include increasing per gallon rates for increased water use.

• Bobcat Said:

Spacing your watering out during your watering day is not a violation. Kind of reaching there Alice.

Restrictions without enforcement or penalty will not likely achieve the desired conservation goals.

• SB Said:

Where did I ever say that they shouldn't have a fine or penalty? I didn't.

Have the fine, but don't make people drive here, there and everywhere, and show up 5 separate times, call 5 separate people, and then get charged with a Class B Misdemeanor.

Here's how it should go:
. . .
Keep it simple stupid.

• Bobcat Said:

Spacing your watering out during your watering day is not a violation. Kind of reaching there Alice.

• SB Said:

Well, the kicker in this whole equation is it is impossible to enforce the water restrictions. The only way to effectively enforce it would be to have 50 city employees driving every street of every neighborhood 24/7 and that isn't going to happen. Just as even a blind squirrel finds an acorn occasionally, the water restriction officer will luck out and drive up on a DTF. Their job is to enforce and issue citations, regardless of what the actual circumstances may be. Hopefully DTF's day in court will expose this flaw.

In my neighborhood alone, my guess is at least 4 in 10 homes water every day in some manner. Some just water their flower beds, while some water their whole lawn, very much like many businesses in Allen do. Another 30% water twice a week, so 70% in my neighborhood alone do not adhere to the current restrictions that are in place. No one, to my knowledge, has received a citation.

Actually, random reward or punishment is quite effective as a behavior modification tool as well as being cost efficient. Allen is exceeding almost all other cities in the water district in conservation efforts. A pat on the back for all of us collectively.

• asmile4u Said:

In yesterday's City Council meeting, it was reported that Allen has achieved a 23.3% reduction since Oct 1st, which is among the top in the water district(10% was the target). They mentioned one city has achieved a slightly higher reduction. So apparently, in spite of the many many violations we see everyday, overall our city seems to be doing our part.

In yesterday's City Council meeting, it was reported that Allen has achieved a 23.3% reduction since Oct 1st, which is among the top in the water district(10% was the target). They mentioned one city has achieved a slightly higher reduction. So apparently, in spite of the many many violations we see everyday, overall our city seems to be doing our part.

I believe they are also considering allowing hand watering of lawns... as opposed to just trees, shrubs, and foundations. I can't find the article I read though.

Isn't a defined process that includes study of the exceptional circumstances of the case, even if slow, better than a quick but arbitrary process? I would itch for a quick determination too but a reality is that nothing negative happens as a result of a lengthy, delayed determination, right?

Call Steve Stoler...if he can get off cougar and coyote hunts long enough. Let him shine a little light on the idiocy of being fined for using your own water.

• pup Said:

Boy you nailed it. Some need to look in the mirror.