wetvet
enthusiast
Posts: 582
Loc: Allen
Reg: 02-26-07
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05-08-09 03:10 PM - Post#85211
In response to StacyLynn624
That is what makes this a great society. I applaud your stance as we all have to draw the line somewhere. Obviously my opinion on the bond has been expressed numerous times and is opposite of yours but an interactive debate is always healthy.
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Edited by wetvet on 05-08-09 03:11 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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vrs
enthusiast
Posts: 2630
Loc: Allen, Texas
Reg: 04-20-00
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05-08-09 03:37 PM - Post#85221
In response to StacyLynn624
I don't think anyone has answered your question - why does it have to cost this much.
After the design meetings last fall, the first version of the stadium had a price tag of 72 million (not adjusted for inflation - this one is 55 million with 2 years of inflation at 4% tacked on)
So that was the dream stadium in a perfect world with unlimited funds. Then we got real.
One of the things on the first draft WAS a third floor on the press box with suites for trustees or dignitaries or playoffs. We said "lose that."
Then we stripped the entire thing right down to the field and built it back up from there - looking at every item on the wish list and going thumbs up or thumbs down.
We went through current capacity (who is sitting in the 14,500 seats we have now) and projected growth in great detail and took the capacity from 20,000 back to 18,000.
Basically, this is what you have:
9000 seats on the home side (that includes 1000 seats for band/drill team and also about 1000 seats for the MS kids). 7000 of those seats are 21 inches wide which is the same distance between rows as we currently have in Eagle Stadium reserved. No individual seats - just aluminum bleachers but folks did want a back rail on those bleachers.
The student section has 4000 seats in the north end zone (grades 9-12). The visitor section has 5000 seats.
You can see that layout on the website - it will be concrete poured on grade for the lower section and concrete/steel for the cantilevered sections. We looked at all aluminum construction and the reduction in cost was minimal at the expense of losing the concourse area and significantly increased maintenance over time along with a large trash problem.
It is a little unfair to compare construction cost of this facility to, say, Kimbrough because once you go over 10,000 seats you have to start talking about a concourse, cantilevered decks, etc.
There is a wrestling room under the home side and the lockers are configured so the wrestlers and football players can all share. (I had to ask what was different between a wrestling locker and a football locker - apparently has to do with size of mats) The wrestlers are currently in attic space over at Lowery.
The press box is two stories - there is a film deck and then the floor with rooms for press, home coaches, visitor coaches, etc.
There are concessions and (drum roll, please) flush toilets!!!!!
In short, there are very few "bells and whistles" on this thing.
My big thing was to make sure the basic structure was adequate. If folks want a big scoreboard or individual seats in the reserved area or a walk of honor memorial area out front - they can bolt that on later.
THEN did the same exercise with the Service Center and the Auditorium. We went through an extensive architect selection process. Then the design charettes 11/10 & 12/8. Then a presentation at the Board Meeting 1/19. Then workshops 2/2, & 2/16. More at the regular meeting on 2/23. And the final workshop on 3/9 with lots of intermediate requests for information and cycles of updates.
This included time with our financial advisors to see what we could realistically afford. We had to get the combined total of all three projects under 120 million or it wouldn't fly financially.
Allen ISD has a AA bond rating right now (up from a B or B- back in 2000). We are jealous of that because we have to sell bonds on our own rating right now. In the past, the state would underwrite district debt with the permanent school fund - so you could get AAA bond backing even if your own rating was less.
Now, though, the PSF is fully leveraged and districts have to get money on their own. We have seen it coming for along time and worked hard on fund balance, debt to net, etc. so we can continue to get money at reasonable rates.
We have put hundreds of hours in on this bond to make sure we can build what we say will for this amount and not go overboard either.
Finally, just a reality of public construction, the bond is authorized for the MAXIMUM cost of the project, adjusted for inflation. It may not cost that much but the worst case needs to be presented.
| Blessed be the cracked, for they let in the light. |
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Brewer
enthusiast
Posts: 1285
Reg: 06-02-07
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05-08-09 03:48 PM - Post#85223
In response to vrs
I would like to ask then, why was the bond issue packaged the way it was and not in an uncoupled fashion that would have allowed the populace to vote on each item separately?
A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week.
-GEN George S. Patton
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Maurice
Community Expert
Posts: 3980
Loc: Allen, TX
Reg: 12-03-01
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05-08-09 03:58 PM - Post#85225
In response to Brewer
My feeling is that they felt it would have more of a chance to pass than having a seperate $60 million dollar bond vote for a football stadium. Get people into believing we need the other two, they'll have to go for the third. That's the second reason I voted NO on this one, I don't like when things are lumped into one bond like that. Especially when it is not an absolute necessity such as the service center appears to be and quite possibly the auditorium.
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vrs
enthusiast
Posts: 2630
Loc: Allen, Texas
Reg: 04-20-00
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05-08-09 04:12 PM - Post#85227
In response to Brewer
That was a long long long long long conversation.
On the one hand, you have the warm and mutually supportive relationship between fine arts and athletics in Allen. It is truly extraordinary and it is the result of deliberate efforts to create the "we are one" spirit of the school.
The fear was that putting the stadium and the bond on separate proposals would pit arts and athletics against each other and potentially damage years of good work.
(If you frequent football message boards, you'll find Allen is the envy of other districts exactly because of the closeness between the team and the escadrille)
On the other hand is the line item veto option for voters and the fact that - more than a decade after the fact - people are still griping about the field house and natatorium being rolled into a bond with other facilities.
There was no perfect solution. Someone would be unhappy and disagree with us no matter what we did.
In the end, the majority wisdom of the Board was that the potential damage of dividing the school and the community into factions would be the greater harm.
| Blessed be the cracked, for they let in the light. |
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sco
enthusiast
Posts: 2667
Loc: allen,TX USA
Reg: 10-26-02
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05-08-09 04:18 PM - Post#85229
In response to Maurice
Personally I am actually quite shocked that the opposition to this bond proposal seems to be to the football stadium. Going into this process I would have sworn that people would have considered the auditorium the "fluff" and the stadium a necessity (that just proves that I know nothing). If the board had wanted to cram something down the voters throat they would have packaged the whole thing with the nuts and bolts item that were passed in the last election. I personally applaud them for separating these items out.
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Maurice
Community Expert
Posts: 3980
Loc: Allen, TX
Reg: 12-03-01
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05-08-09 05:15 PM - Post#85232
In response to sco
I never consider an athletic facility a MUST unless there isn't one or the current one is in such disrepair as to demand a new one. Also, $60 million isn't a cheap drop in the bucket for a limited use facility IMO.
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KRS
newbie
Posts: 23
Reg: 01-01-07
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05-08-09 07:20 PM - Post#85240
In response to Maurice
I never consider an athletic facility a MUST unless there isn't one or the current one is in such disrepair as to demand a new one. Also, $60 million isn't a cheap drop in the bucket for a limited use facility IMO.
I don't consider the athletic facility a must either, but I think the time is right to approve it being built. I think there is a reason that all three of the items in this bond election ended up at the end of a long line of bond elections through the years.
The AISD BOT acted correctly in my mind by putting these off till all of the school/teaching facilities were taken care of.
It Just so happens that all the while they were putting it off, Allen has done growd up into a real city. I just think we deserve a real stadium.
Limited Use is in the eye of the beholder. I don't consider the new stadium "limited use", but I would consider the old "Double Wide" Stadium facility "limited use".
The world will not come to an end if we don't build the new stadium right away, but the clock is ticking and things aren't getting any cheaper.
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StacyLynn624
enthusiast
Posts: 840
Loc: East Side
Reg: 09-24-04
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05-08-09 08:50 PM - Post#85245
In response to KRS
So, if it's only $40 a taxpayer, and it's not that much per person, why can't you lower something or scrap something to get $40 per taxpayer?
I just don't think that a 60 million dollar football stadium with a 19k seat capacity that will be filled less than 10 times a year is a good use of taxpayer dollars.
Edited by StacyLynn624 on 05-08-09 08:51 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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slb
enthusiast
Posts: 164
Loc: Allen, TX
Reg: 05-03-08
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05-08-09 11:28 PM - Post#85254
In response to StacyLynn624
So, if it's only $40 a taxpayer, and it's not that much per person, why can't you lower something or scrap something to get $40 per taxpayer?
I just don't think that a 60 million dollar football stadium with a 19k seat capacity that will be filled less than 10 times a year is a good use of taxpayer dollars.
IF this were just a football stadium and only used for 5-6 days a night, I would vote differently. THAT is NOT the case. As stated by others on this message board, the multipurpose stadium will be used by wrestling, golf, soccer, the escadrille, football, club sports, ASA and the community.
There are many things we can not do with the current stadium. We can not hold band competitions today - we will with this facility. Allen Eagle Play-off games - our stadium is not an option because it is too small. Other UIL sports playoff games, community events, outdoor concerts, etc... the opporutnities are limitless.
With a VOTE YES - club sports like lacrosse and rugby have greater field access and the opportunity to grow. We've all said that Allen HS becomes a much smaller place when kids who want to participate are given a venue and a chance to participate and a place to belong.
In the future ~ if you still remain as passionate about the topics we've discussed in our message boards, you might want to join one of the citizen's advisory committees (the call to join Project Kids for example was communicated to the entire Allen community). You have an avenue to productively participate in the effort and a chance for your voice to be heard. You are given a clearer perspective of what the needs of the community are, the scrutiny that is put in vetting those needs and costs, and a better understanding of the careful, conservative planning that is undertaken.
"Our prime purpose in this life is to help others. And if you can't help them, at least don't hurt them."
- Tenzin Gyatso, 14th Dalai Lama
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StacyLynn624
enthusiast
Posts: 840
Loc: East Side
Reg: 09-24-04
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05-09-09 09:22 AM - Post#85264
In response to slb
I went to high school, and I know that the stadium holds other events than just football. I'm not an idiot. At my high school, our stadium was much smaller than this proposed stadium, and we held several band competitions and the Dallas Cup!!
The reason that I said that this would be filled to capacity less than 10 times a year, is accounting for 5-6 football game sellouts, plus a few band competitions. Soccer, wrestling and other activities aren't going to be near sell out of a 19k seat stadium.
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chf
enthusiast
Posts: 492
Loc: NW Allen
Reg: 12-22-07
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05-09-09 09:57 AM - Post#85267
In response to StacyLynn624
It would also be an ideal venue for 1A-3A football playoff games and 1A-3A UIL regional/area band competitions.
Edited by chf on 05-09-09 09:57 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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StacyLynn624
enthusiast
Posts: 840
Loc: East Side
Reg: 09-24-04
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05-09-09 12:33 PM - Post#85274
In response to chf
Again, you don't need a 19k seat, $60 million dollar stadium to host those activities. Smaller, cheaper stadiums all over the state hold those events. That's my point.
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r75002
enthusiast
Posts: 419
Reg: 06-03-06
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05-09-09 12:59 PM - Post#85275
In response to StacyLynn624
But why build a stadium that's to small to accommodate the throng of Eagle fans that want to go to the football games???? To me that would be an absolute waste!
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gaylonlee
enthusiast
Posts: 154
Reg: 03-06-06
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05-09-09 01:11 PM - Post#85276
In response to DrivinTooFast
Just voted. Pretty long lines (30-40). Everyone seemed in the "No" crowd, so you "Yes" folks better get down there. :wink:  
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StacyLynn624
enthusiast
Posts: 840
Loc: East Side
Reg: 09-24-04
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05-09-09 04:11 PM - Post#85281
In response to r75002
5 times a year. Nice. These are the problems that you have when you choose to only have one High School. You can't have everything work out the way you want. The other districts in the area that have these large stadiums (that are still smaller than 19k seats) all have multiple high schools that share the stadium. The ones that I can think of off the top of my head are Mesquite, Plano, CFB.
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Don4
enthusiast
Posts: 368
Loc: Allen 1993
Reg: 04-11-06
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05-09-09 05:04 PM - Post#85282
In response to StacyLynn624
For 60 million bucks they can rent the bleachers every year for the next 235 years. 
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denisew
Community Expert
Posts: 8753
Loc: Allen, TX
Reg: 02-18-02
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05-09-09 05:12 PM - Post#85284
In response to Don4
Whether you vote for the bond or not, I hope people got out to vote today. I did go vote at 7:15 this morning. I was surprised to see several people there voting that early. Hopefully they had a good turnout.
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r75002
enthusiast
Posts: 419
Reg: 06-03-06
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05-09-09 07:16 PM - Post#85288
In response to StacyLynn624
5 times a year. Nice. These are the problems that you have when you choose to only have one High School. You can't have everything work out the way you want. The other districts in the area that have these large stadiums (that are still smaller than 19k seats) all have multiple high schools that share the stadium. The ones that I can think of off the top of my head are Mesquite, Plano, CFB.
So you would rather spend $100mil+ (as estimated by vrs) to build another high school, and then still have to spend $20mil to $40mil to either fix up eagle stadium or build an new one the same size? Then after you've done all that, we have a high school campus that we spent probably $100mil to build (my guess, I wasn't here when it was built) that is 1/3 to 1/2 empty. That's just crazy!
BTW - Mesquite's Memorial Stadium has a capicity of 20K - Mesquite ISD
Plano has 2 staduims. I believe that Clark holds 14K and Kimbrough holds 10K. So they have built a total capicity of 24K.
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wetvet
enthusiast
Posts: 582
Loc: Allen
Reg: 02-26-07
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05-09-09 07:38 PM - Post#85289
In response to r75002
Hopefully today's voting mirrors the early voting results
http://www.co.collin.tx.us/elections/election_res u...
Got Water? We do!!
www.thewetvet.com
Water now available for pick up at 705 N. Greenville, Allen
A Veteran Owned and Operated Company |
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