RRRquilter
enthusiast
Posts: 1243
Loc: Allen
Reg: 05-02-05
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03-13-09 03:44 PM - Post#80453
In response to LoveAllen
Now do not take this so personal because you are tying to put words in my mouth.  I think it is funny when those who cast stones can't take it very well and then start to put words and thoughts out there that to try and mix things up. If we all blindly just followed and didn't want to think things through for ourselves then this country could be in a big mess. Oh, yes and where are we now( in a big mess that did not happen over night), Tens of millions of people trusted banks, stock markets,etc. and where did this get them? I think we should always question our leaders and not just follow whatever. It is one thing if you really think and agree that is great but do not get upset when someone doesn't agree because it helps to try and see everyones point of view.:)
The point is that I do not agree.
I do not agree to spent this kind of money when I have been told by the school board the reason why we don't have another HS is due to money and land issues. ( that was my offical reason that I got when I asked 2 years ago and now all of this comes up, so yes this is upsetting to ask for this much money when I think other HS is needed along with really another JR High). Where did I say I was unhappy with schools, I am being honest about where I see things are heading quickly and how the schools in large( because of growth will conintue for another 10 years I think before Allen really gets to a stopping place.)need help by adding additonal schools.
And I will vote a Big NO!! If it where money better spent and size was different then I would vote Yes but as of for now I think on the surface it looks fine and great but I think in the end this could really hurt tax payers for this city and I really do Love Allen.
I'm sorry, I didn't realize I was casting stones. Continue as you were.
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DrivinTooFast
enthusiast
Posts: 1352
Reg: 02-20-08
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03-13-09 05:17 PM - Post#80466
In response to RRRquilter
Let me tell you how the greatest political machine passed a $500 Million bond proposal with over 70% approval.
Frisco! The best political machine since Daly in Chicago.
1st the school board has a special election not tied to any other election, this keeps voter turnout low and is easier to influence.
2nd the election runs during open house when parents are in the schools.
3rd open house starts with a presentation under the guise of a PTA meeting that is actually the slide show for the bond proposal
4th Kids take their parents around the school on a "scavenger hunt" and show their parents all the good things going on with the school.
5th the scaveger hunt's final stop is the polling place for the bond election
6th the election officials are the kid's teachers
So yea, you had to say no to your kid's teacher with your kid at your side immediately after getting the "Vote Yes" bond proposal presentation.
Frisco could have passed a support child abuse campaign with that political machine.
THAT's how you get $500 Million from 50,000 people.
Edited by DrivinTooFast on 03-13-09 05:18 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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vrs
enthusiast
Posts: 2632
Loc: Allen, Texas
Reg: 04-20-00
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03-13-09 05:42 PM - Post#80467
In response to jogo
VRS, just for curiosity sake, has a school bond election in Allen ever NOT passed? (I know I could probably find the answer somehow but since you probably know, I'll just ask you.)
Here is the history:
http://www.allenisd.org/web/Bond-Election-08/ BondE...
I knew the most recent was in 1990. Did not know it was the only one.
| Blessed be the cracked, for they let in the light. |
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vrs
enthusiast
Posts: 2632
Loc: Allen, Texas
Reg: 04-20-00
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03-13-09 06:38 PM - Post#80477
In response to LoveAllen
LoveAllen -
I do not dispute your decision to vote no on the bond - that is clearly your prerogative.
At the same time, I think it is important for you to be aware that many of the facts upon which you base your opinions are far removed from actual truth.
You cite anecdotal evidence that (among other things) 5000+ families in Allen home school, that classes have upwards of 33 students per class, that older campuses were built for 500 students, and that a second high school is still on the table.
We've already dealt with numbers on the homeschoolers. AISD serves a percentage in the high 90's of the students who reside in its boundaries. Student who are not served by AISD include both homeschoolers and also those whose parents choose private schools.
AISD does not rely on US Census data for enrollment projections. Every 2-3 years the district refreshes its enrollment projections with very detailed demographic studies - looking at the comprehensive plans, counting housing starts, etc. The numbers of students who actually show up at the door are startlingly close to the projections.
You have enrollments at campuses listed, but not the design capacities of those campuses. There is not a campus in the district with a design capacity as low as 500 students. Most campuses are comfortably in the 90% range of enrollment/capacity. The notable exceptions are those elementaries already scheduled for relief by the opening of Olson, Cheatham, and #17.
In terms of enrollment, AISD is almost "there." Buildout enrollment in the district is projected to be something on the order of 21,000-22,000 students in grades K-12. That's a cohort of about 1600 students. The capacity at Lowery is 1700 students - should be fine for the Freshman Center. The capacity at AHS is 4200 and the new academic wing approved last November will take it to 4800 - -should be fine for grades 10-12.
Methods of instructional delivery will change over time (driven by teacher shortage and demand for flexible offerings) and it would be unwise to overbuild brick and mortar classrooms. Also, folks tend to stay in Allen after their kids are grown and I fully expect the school age population will crest at buildout and then fall back a bit after that. Yet another reason not to overbuild classroom capacity.
AISD is a one high school district. I don't doubt that people still talk about it - but it's a done deal.
K-4 classes are capped at 22 students by law. AISD tries to keep 30 or fewer students in core classes at AHS.
People often confuse school size or cohort size with class size. They are not necessarily related. In fact, a large school, operationally more efficient, can often afford smaller class sizes while offering considerably more opportunities.
I would really encourage you to do as you stated in one post and that is to find solid data and then remember that all data requires context in order to be interpreted in a meaningful way.
| Blessed be the cracked, for they let in the light. |
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LoveAllen
member
Posts: 52
Reg: 07-29-07
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03-13-09 06:42 PM - Post#80478
In response to RRRquilter
Thanks :)
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LoveAllen
member
Posts: 52
Reg: 07-29-07
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03-13-09 06:44 PM - Post#80479
In response to DrivinTooFast
WOW is that really true?
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LoveAllen
member
Posts: 52
Reg: 07-29-07
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03-13-09 06:45 PM - Post#80480
In response to vrs
I agree with some of what you said but not all from what I have read and have been told.:)
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LoveAllen
member
Posts: 52
Reg: 07-29-07
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03-13-09 06:58 PM - Post#80481
In response to LoveAllen
I did ask my friend that home schools and she said that due to how they are spilt into difference home school groups in Allen and most want to not to be in a group counted unoffically ( don't really understand that?) I can say that she said that when you combine the number of familes with Allen and she said she is also counting some that offically live in places that boarder Allen, Plano, McKinney, Love Joy and some other small cities that are part of the groups it is a very large amount and is around 5,000 plus or minus but said there is no web site that will state the amount of people. So I do think she is telling the truth.:) Because people forget how big Allen is for its land size.:) I am guessing but don't know for sure but what is the last count of how many people live in Allen? Is it around 80-90 thousand? Does anyone know?
Edited by LoveAllen on 03-13-09 07:00 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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DrivinTooFast
enthusiast
Posts: 1352
Reg: 02-20-08
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03-13-09 07:58 PM - Post#80488
In response to LoveAllen
WOW is that really true?
YEP. $500 Million and a PTA meeting to boot.
FISD pretty much just said let's do away with that whole take it out in small chunks and get voter approval every couple of years. Let's just ambush the voters into passing the whole burrito. Guacamole and all!
I thought having the teachers as the election clerks was just a nice finishing touch. Nobody really wants to be an election clerk for an ISD election. It's boring. "Encourage" the teachers to being the election clerks and then position them so that they served as clerks in the schools they also teach. Principals gave a special word of thanks to those teachers that volunteered their time to be election clerks. Of course the schools are the polling places in an ISD election, combine that with open house/bond presentation and instant on campus voting.
Poof! You have an election in your pocket. Easy Squeezy.
Edited by DrivinTooFast on 03-13-09 08:08 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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LoveAllen
member
Posts: 52
Reg: 07-29-07
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03-13-09 08:05 PM - Post#80490
In response to DrivinTooFast
WOW that is really scary!! and so sad and another reason to always question things and get as much info as possible and always check to see if there is a better way.:)
Hope everyone has A great Spring Brake and hoping for better weather ( but I guess we did need the rain). 
Edited by LoveAllen on 03-13-09 08:06 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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DrivinTooFast
enthusiast
Posts: 1352
Reg: 02-20-08
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03-14-09 09:36 AM - Post#80517
In response to LoveAllen
As a followup FISD passed another $800 Million in 2006 on the back of the $500 Million I spoke of earlier in 2003.
Frisco choose a long time ago to go with a smaller school footprint. Frisco will be planning out it's 7th high school. I really do not think it has had any effect on the quality of education. I can say it's one heck of an expensive way to build a school system. It also seems to divide the city into micro cities.
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sco
enthusiast
Posts: 2671
Loc: allen,TX USA
Reg: 10-26-02
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03-14-09 01:57 PM - Post#80528
In response to LoveAllen
LoveAllen said:
is a very large amount and is around 5,000 plus or minus but said there is no web site that will state the amount of people. So I do think she is telling the truth.:) Because people forget how big Allen is for its land size.:) I am guessing but don't know for sure but what is the last count of how many people live in Allen? Is it around 80-90 thousand? Does anyone know?
According to the National Home Education Research website:
"Homeschooling grew from 1.7% of the school-age population in 1999 to 2.9% in 2007"
Let's assume that Allen is unusual or it has grown since then so let's use 4%. You stated that there are 5000 home school families in Allen which would imply at least 10000 home school students. In order for 4% of the school age population to equal 10000, the school age population would have to be 250,000. The entire population of Allen is around 80,000 people. Clearly that 5000 number is incorrect. I'm really not trying to beat a dead horse here. I'm trying to point out that because somebody tells you something it doesn't mean it is true.
We know for a fact how much land is available in Allen, how it is zoned, and the maximum housing density. We can use scientific formulas to estimate how many students will be enrolled. They aren't guessing.
Edited by sco on 03-14-09 02:02 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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LoveAllen
member
Posts: 52
Reg: 07-29-07
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03-14-09 02:24 PM - Post#80529
In response to sco
I don't know for sure that is what she is saying??
I do think it is odd why there isn't a web site or somewhere that states it??
But also: How many people are in Allen as of now? and does that include people of live in apts or town homes. because there are 1000,'s of apts around Allen.
Edited by LoveAllen on 03-14-09 02:25 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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sco
enthusiast
Posts: 2671
Loc: allen,TX USA
Reg: 10-26-02
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03-14-09 04:21 PM - Post#80535
In response to LoveAllen
Here is a document with detailed demographic information here. As of last year the population was around 81,000 which would include the apartments. Page 4 of the referenced document breaks it down by age group and has projections for growth up until build out. You had the statistics for school enrollment. I couldn't find statistics on total school age population but I didn't dig very deep. I'm sure that information is available somewhere.
Edited by sco on 03-14-09 04:24 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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rclark
enthusiast
Posts: 800
Loc: Allen, TX
Reg: 01-16-08
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03-14-09 05:48 PM - Post#80539
In response to sco
And to further document the population statistics, here's what the U.S. Census Bureau has to say about Allen.
Yes, this page gives estimates based on older census data, but I think it is probably more reliable than a few word-of-mouth anecdotes.
Two plus two equals five, for sufficiently large values of two.
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readingu
enthusiast
Posts: 705
Reg: 02-08-04
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03-15-09 03:58 PM - Post#80583
In response to rclark
Seems to this thread was high jacked from a bond notification to a home schooling debate. Start a new thread.
As for the bond in it's current form I can only say no. Since I am not cultured in legality and how elections are presented I can only ask a question. Can the items on the bond be separated so each can be voted on or is all crammed into one yes or no vote.
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vrs
enthusiast
Posts: 2632
Loc: Allen, Texas
Reg: 04-20-00
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03-15-09 04:32 PM - Post#80586
In response to readingu
All three projects are on one proposition.
| Blessed be the cracked, for they let in the light. |
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jaw
enthusiast
Posts: 206
Loc: Allen, TX USA
Reg: 10-08-02
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03-16-09 11:14 AM - Post#80624
In response to LoveAllen
I will vote yes for this. I do not have children in school any longer but I do own a house in this district. Believe me, schools have a big impact on home value. If the schools go down so does the value of your home. The football stadium has been thought out by members of the community and the school board. This will be a multi use facility for the district. I have season tickets to the games and I will not use the restrooms because of the lines and by half time they are nasty. I cringed everytime the team scores a touchdown because of the students in the temporary bleachers jumping up and down. I worry about injuries to our students and a law suit if the bleachers would fail. This amount of money is small when you think about the injuries or a law suit.
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readingu
enthusiast
Posts: 705
Reg: 02-08-04
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03-16-09 05:12 PM - Post#80636
In response to jaw
So sorry for your poor misfortunes for the poor exiting stadium problems especially when the other team scores. Maybe if they put maybe 10 million into a rehab of the existing one you could have a better time with your dismal problem. Got to keep up with Jones as I see it. For people on fixed budgets and the economy suckin' wind we sure could do without this bloated bond. AISD sure has good timing.
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DrivinTooFast
enthusiast
Posts: 1352
Reg: 02-20-08
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03-16-09 06:53 PM - Post#80642
In response to readingu
NO doubt the ISD has bad timing, however, you have to remember these are long term projects with a lifespan of 30 years or so. The stadium will not even be completed until Aug 2012, so hopefully we will be out of the recession by then.
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