Maurice
Community Expert
Posts: 3980
Loc: Allen, TX
Reg: 12-03-01
|
05-07-09 09:44 PM - Post#85133
In response to wetvet
I'm the one who said it won't generate revenue. I should have added to that, it won't generate enough revenue to justify $60 million. As I said, it's HS football, not college and not pro so I still don't see the revenue generation (even for the local businesses) that could justify that kind of spending. It'll be a limited use facility, for football, soccer, drill team, graduation etc. If they were planning on using it for major concerts, tours, outdoor wrestling (WWE stuff brings in lots of money) then maybe it would have merit but for HS sports, I can't see it.
This should have been a line item ballot but they chose to wrap it all into one which means others may suffer if people do vote it down. It would have been nice if they could have gotten a cheaper cost too, no matter how it's sliced $60 million for a limited use HS facility is insane IMO.
|
slb
enthusiast
Posts: 164
Loc: Allen, TX
Reg: 05-03-08
|
05-07-09 10:19 PM - Post#85140
In response to vrs
Thank-you for voting. Different people have different perspectives - this is why we have an election.
Just so you know, the plan for the new stadium has the seating significantly skeehawed toward the home side. 9000 seats - 1000 for band, 1000 for MS kiddos, and the rest for reserved/general admission.
North endzone is Lowery/AHS and east side is a 5000 seat visitor section. So, while reserved seating is very exclusive at old Eagle Stadium, it will not be so at the new one.
Do we need a new stadium? We'll have school, play ball, and graduate kids without it. But I believe its time has come.
I know some folks look at the stadium and say - it will only be used to capacity 5 nights a year. What are you using Eagle Stadium for right now besides varsity home games that require that much seating?
Well, the answer is of course nothing because we don't HAVE a 14,000 seat venue at Eagle Stadium. We have a 7200 seat stadium with a bunch of temporary bleachers and porta potties.
The truth is, no one on the face of the planet would pay a single penny for the privilege of using Eagle Stadium for a quality event - they just go elsewhere. Home fans are crazy enough to put up with it. (It is not such a problem for me - I have season tickets and I use the bathroom before I leave the house.) Band competitions, playoff games, and community events are things we COULD do if we had such a facility – but we do not do them now because we do not have the capacity to host them.
A Short Story
Ma and Pa Kettle have a standard cab pickup and 10 kids. Whenever it is time to go to Church on Sunday, Ma and Pa and the baby get to sit in the front seat and the other 9 kids pile into the bed of the pickup. Rain or shine, the 9 kids arrive at Church in time for services. Now they may be chilled, or soaked, or sweaty and dusty depending on the weather, but they get there. So far, no one has fallen out of the truck when it hit a pothole and gotten hurt too badly. It’s not pretty and it’s not comfortable but it gets the job done.
Time passes and Ma and Pa see their financial circumstances improving somewhat. One day, Pa says "Ma, let's get ourselves a brand spanking new 12 passenger van. Everyone has a seat. Everyone has a seat belt. Everywhere we go as a family, everyone will be safe and comfortable. Why, John-boy could pick up extra cash on weekends driving folks around for weddin's and proms and spoiled rich kid birthday parties. We could even all take that vacation we've been talkin' about to the Grand Canyon."
And Ma says "Pa - that's crazy talk. We can get to Church just fine in the pickup truck just like we been doin’ all these years. And how do you know people will want John-boy to drive them around places? We've had that truck all these years and ain't never once anyone called and asked to rent the truck to drive the weddin’ party from the Church over to the reception hall. And how many family vacations did we ever take in the pickup truck? You're dreamin' wild, Pa. Ain't no point in buyin' a 12 passenger van that we'll only use on Sunday when we can get there in the truck and it ain't you and me out in the weather anyways - it's the kids."
Disclaimer - this post is meant to be an analogy offered in good humor to help explain why one might not be able to look at the current "big event" usage of Eagle Stadium and project the big event usage of a new facility. The folksy tone is not meant to disparage any of the folks opposed to the bond.
Very illustrative analogy - of course I am way too young to know anything about Ma and Pa Kettle and their fine kettle of fish!
"Our prime purpose in this life is to help others. And if you can't help them, at least don't hurt them."
- Tenzin Gyatso, 14th Dalai Lama
|
|
rclark
enthusiast
Posts: 800
Loc: Allen, TX
Reg: 01-16-08
|
05-07-09 11:43 PM - Post#85145
In response to andro1
Not to anyone in particular but who "called" the idea that Allen should only have one high school? What document or charter enshrines this and what needs to be done to propose an amendment? Or is an amendment not possible at all - that seems a little undemocratic...
This is not to stir the pot but just to get the facts.
The one vs. two issue comes up fairly frequently, and it seems to be a deciding factor for some on this bond issue. If you are interested in the subject, there have been several good threads on this forum covering the decision. You can get the story straight from the school board president's hotkey macro here and here at least.
The short answer is that we have a high school facility that holds 3600 or so now, and enrollment projections of about 600 more at buildout. You can't build another facility and split up the 4200 kids between old and new schools in any way that makes economic sense.
Two plus two equals five, for sufficiently large values of two.
|
|
 Webmaster
Community Manager
Posts: 3110
Loc: Allen, Texas
Reg: 01-24-00
|
05-08-09 12:01 AM - Post#85147
In response to rclark
Thanks for posting the links.
Web
Allen finds it on. . . Allen Online! |
|
StacyLynn624
enthusiast
Posts: 840
Loc: East Side
Reg: 09-24-04
|
05-08-09 09:16 AM - Post#85162
In response to r75002
I'm pretty sure that $60 million isn't going to build a basic stadium at that capacity. Nothing that AISD does is basic.
I won't use the stadium. Not everyone in the city goes to football games or any of the other things that go on there.
|
andro1
enthusiast
Posts: 206
Loc: Allen, TX, USA
Reg: 11-05-03
|
05-08-09 11:01 AM - Post#85171
In response to rclark
Thanks for the links. 4200 at buildout...in one school....wow. I thought Plano Senior High was large but they are only 2500. I wonder at what point big becomes too big to manage or control.
|
campbellfam
enthusiast
Posts: 1849
Loc: Allen, TX, USA
Reg: 07-12-02
|
05-08-09 11:15 AM - Post#85175
In response to andro1
Plano Senior High only has 2 grades- 11th and 12th AHS has 10th graders as well. If there was a way to combine 9th and 10th graders it would help ease the space issues at AHS but I doubt that will happen...
| Unless specified above, this post is not directed toward anyone in particular. |
|
sage
newbie
Posts: 12
Reg: 04-29-08
|
05-08-09 11:27 AM - Post#85176
In response to andro1
Voting yes for this bond proposal is a no-brainer for me. I have no kids in the schools and I am considered an "older" member of this commuity. I vote YES for the kids who participate in sporting events, for the kids in fine arts,and I think a service center designed for a 2-A school needs a 5-A facility.
Sports are blown way out of proportion but who amongst us will manage to stop this. An education is very important but a "well rounded" education is a necessity. The last time I looked, many of our merit scholars were involved in fine arts and band.
Lets assume that all the extra curricular activites go away- what will our kids do- smoke dope, rob businesses??? I do not mean that all of the kids would get into trouble, but extra-curricular activities do occupy time for our kids and give them an important alternative to other less than positive activities.
Now, THIS facility will obviously provide a safe place to seat fans for a football game. But it is the other things it will do that are more important to me. It provides a safe place for wrestlers to practice (you should see their current conditions), an indoor facility for golfers and other indoor uses.
THIS facility will be built to attract UIL marching competitions, play off football games, and outdoor concerts and community events. This means non-residents spending money in our community. Ask the businesses if they like people spending money in our community.
Remember that this bond election is about more than just a football stadium. To me the auditorium is even more important as we have many more people participating in fine arts than sports. Do these people need to suffer because you don't want a stadium?
Lastly, the service center has become a necessity. We need a place to improve the food service for our schools. Our kids need to be offered healthy, warm meals. This is probably THE most important part of the bond.
Please VOTE on Saturday.
|
andro1
enthusiast
Posts: 206
Loc: Allen, TX, USA
Reg: 11-05-03
|
05-08-09 11:35 AM - Post#85177
In response to campbellfam
Thank you...that does put it more in perspective though it is still a very large number of students in one campus.
Re. the bond itself, both sides have valid points. On the one hand a district this size needs a modern and safe facility for hosting sports but on the other hand, should we spend so much to make it happen.
Though my kids won't go to Ford, I still hope a future or previous bond will result in the removal of the big portable in front of that school and ensure all kids a place within the school building itself.
Edited by andro1 on 05-08-09 11:46 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
|
rclark
enthusiast
Posts: 800
Loc: Allen, TX
Reg: 01-16-08
|
05-08-09 11:50 AM - Post#85178
In response to andro1
... I wonder at what point big becomes too big to manage or control.
Harvard University has about 6700 undergraduates, but their reputation does not seem to have suffered too much.
:)
Two plus two equals five, for sufficiently large values of two.
|
|
andro1
enthusiast
Posts: 206
Loc: Allen, TX, USA
Reg: 11-05-03
|
 05-08-09 11:55 AM - Post#85179
In response to rclark
Harvard is also veeeeeeery selective
|
rclark
enthusiast
Posts: 800
Loc: Allen, TX
Reg: 01-16-08
|
05-08-09 12:44 PM - Post#85185
In response to andro1
AHS is even more selective - fewer students, and highly restrictive geographic quotas. We win!
... and our football team could take theirs ...
Two plus two equals five, for sufficiently large values of two.
|
|
StacyLynn624
enthusiast
Posts: 840
Loc: East Side
Reg: 09-24-04
|
05-08-09 01:00 PM - Post#85187
In response to sage
While all of this may be true, I think the amount they're asking us to spend it way too high. It's too bad that these three things are lumped together. I voted no, because I want them to go back to the drawing board and come up with something that is more reasonable than what they are suggesting now. We already have one of the highest property tax rates in the DFW area.
|
RRRquilter
enthusiast
Posts: 1243
Loc: Allen
Reg: 05-02-05
|
05-08-09 01:06 PM - Post#85188
In response to StacyLynn624
We already have one of the highest property tax rates in the DFW area.
This simply is not true. Link
|
Uncle Al
member
Posts: 41
Loc: allen, texas
Reg: 05-14-04
|
05-08-09 01:13 PM - Post#85190
In response to slb
This is how I feel also.
There is a commnity spirit here
that I have not seen in many, IF ANY
other places.
I have said this before, but I see
the new stadium as a gathering place
for the whole town. With a venue like
that more things can be brought in to
be enjoyed by more of us than just football.
| Popularity is never a measuring stick for truth. |
|
slb
enthusiast
Posts: 164
Loc: Allen, TX
Reg: 05-03-08
|
05-08-09 01:31 PM - Post#85191
In response to StacyLynn624
I'm pretty sure that $60 million isn't going to build a basic stadium at that capacity. Nothing that AISD does is basic.
I won't use the stadium. Not everyone in the city goes to football games or any of the other things that go on there.
If we all took that approach, then it would be difficult to build our schools, senior center, library, etc. Since my children are all gone, I don't have a need for elementary - high schools. I've never called out the fire department. And I work so many hours, that the library really doesn't benefit me.
I know these facilities benefit our community regardless of whether I personally benefit from them or not. So when it comes time to bring these projects forward and to make them a reality for Allen - I vote yes.
"Our prime purpose in this life is to help others. And if you can't help them, at least don't hurt them."
- Tenzin Gyatso, 14th Dalai Lama
|
|
StacyLynn624
enthusiast
Posts: 840
Loc: East Side
Reg: 09-24-04
|
05-08-09 01:33 PM - Post#85193
In response to RRRquilter
I think $5k is enough to pay in property taxes every year, and my property value isn't that high. I can find better uses for that $40 a year. It's $40 now, but then they'll be something else and that'll be $40, and like someone posted earlier, you're starting to talk about real money.
Again, great, it's for the whole city, fine. I won't use it, and I know I'm not the only one that lives in Allen that won't use it. Let's get something more reasonable on the table.
|
RRRquilter
enthusiast
Posts: 1243
Loc: Allen
Reg: 05-02-05
|
05-08-09 01:42 PM - Post#85195
In response to StacyLynn624
There are plenty of things here in Allen that I don't use, but I still support them.
Just like I had to explain to my kids this week about teacher appreciation. Besides their homeroom teacher they are assigned a support staff teacher. Even though my children do not use these particular teachers, they still honor and include them.
It is all of value to each of us, whether we use it or not.
|
Brewer
enthusiast
Posts: 1285
Reg: 06-02-07
|
05-08-09 01:45 PM - Post#85199
In response to andro1
With all the fights I hear about now I think it's already there.
A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week.
-GEN George S. Patton
|
|
StacyLynn624
enthusiast
Posts: 840
Loc: East Side
Reg: 09-24-04
|
05-08-09 02:38 PM - Post#85204
In response to RRRquilter
I also pay for a lot of things that I don't use. I'm chosing to draw the line at a 60 million dollar football stadium.
That's my choice, and there's a lot of Allen residents who agree.
|
