Brewer
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Posts: 1285
Reg: 06-02-07
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06-01-09 07:02 PM - Post#86770
This is in response to Martel Locke
What good does a "highly trained,quick response police force and SWAT team" do when the guy has simply run through the door and taken control of the school?
Do you REALLY think there is an SRO at the schools full time? I hate to disabuse you of that notion but you would be wrong. There are two full time at AHS but there are none that are full time at ANY elementary campus.
Someone who is off their rocker and being told by god to go to a school and kill a bunch of kids is probably not going to meet ANY resistance! There were SROs at Columbine that waited for HOURS before going towards school.
You speak of response times. There was a shooter in NY earlier this year that expended close to 100 rounds in less than two minutes. I was told by an SRO that the average response time to the school closest to me was 2.5 minutes. That's a bunch of shooting time there sport.
I think it's a much better plan to at least try to keep the wackos outside where they don't have a school full of 400 targets. I lock the front door of my house, Don't you?
Maybe you run every time you feel that things are not going your way? I don't, I stay and get things changed.
As far as what other districts do or don't do. Richardson locks the front door, Lovejoy has what amounts to a mantrap like what you might see at a jail or an appointment only jewelry store. Frisco locks the front door. The bottom line is I don't care what any other district does for the same reason your mommy didn't care if your friends got their ears pierced. My kids don't go to those districts they go to AISD.
I have been working within the system to get it changed since I picked up my first kindergarten packet over three years ago and have been met with little more than platitudes and hostility.Don't rock the boat in Allen!!
I have no fantasy that any plan would keep out a well rehearsed GROUP of hitters but the reality is that most school attackers are single actors that moved quickly into the school,shoot or stab until the police show up and then kill themselves or go quietly.
Sure it does not happen often but the last time a kid was burned to death was over 50 years ago but you can't turn around in a school w/o seeing sprinklers and extinguishers. I assure you that those are not free either.
You might be told that someone would shoot their way into the school if the door was locked, this has never happened except in Hollywood! There have been hundreds of school shootings in the last 20 years and that has never occurred.
What makes Allen so special that it could never happen here? On the contrary. If someone was looking for a place to really make a statement how long would it take them to find out that AISD thinks a RAPTOR machine and a staffer to run it are ALL that stands between them and 400 bargaining chips or targets.
Those of you that expound on how safe you feel at the school need to realize that nowhere is truly safe but mitigating a threat does not make you weak or paranoid it simply makes you a little more prepared. You wear a seat belt and lock your car doors don't you.
While you can't be ready for everything does that mean you should stay unprepared for anything? Locke the front door. B
The money to put in a locking front door was mentioned to be on the order of $250,000 for ALL of the elementary schools. This money exists and does not have to come from anywhere else.
Martel, No offense but I'm thinking you don't have children. When I didn't have any I would not have given this issue a second thought.
Anyone can feel free to leave a response. I will answer them all.
A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week.
-GEN George S. Patton
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wetvet
enthusiast
Posts: 582
Loc: Allen
Reg: 02-26-07
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06-01-09 09:35 PM - Post#86779
In response to Brewer
I would be anxious to see statistics on how many school shootings have occurred where the shooter was an outsider (meaning wasn't a student) versus how many shootings have occurred where a student, or students, were responsible.
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Brewer
enthusiast
Posts: 1285
Reg: 06-02-07
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06-01-09 09:49 PM - Post#86780
In response to wetvet
There is almost a perfect bell when you look at school attacks. The largest percentage of primary school perpetrators have ZERO connection to the school while in middle schools it's close to a 50-50 mix. At the other end most of the attacks at high schools are carried out by students or other people well known by the school. B
A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week.
-GEN George S. Patton
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chf
enthusiast
Posts: 492
Loc: NW Allen
Reg: 12-22-07
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06-02-09 09:42 AM - Post#86800
In response to Brewer
Not a reply to anyone in particular, but just to throw in my experience with Plano's locked door/buzz-in system. Before we moved to Allen, our oldest attended Hedgecoxe, where they had the door locked and visitors had to be buzzed in. The first time I ever went to the school, I went to the door, pushed the button, was asked why I was there, answered to eat lunch, and I was buzzed in. At that point I had free access to the school - no one was there to ask me to check in. I could have walked right by the office. No one in the office knew me from Adam, but they just buzzed me in when I said I was there to eat lunch.
So unless Plano's system has been improved, it's really no better than Allen's.
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denisew
Community Expert
Posts: 8757
Loc: Allen, TX
Reg: 02-18-02
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06-02-09 12:25 PM - Post#86814
In response to chf
they had the door locked and visitors had to be buzzed in.
I have been to a middle school in Plano to drop something off and if they see you to ask what you're there for and then buzz you in . . . well, I had to stand there for quite awhile after I pushed the button alerting them to my presence. I agree that it is not very secure because the office didn't even have direct view of the door across the hallway.
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sco
enthusiast
Posts: 2667
Loc: allen,TX USA
Reg: 10-26-02
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06-02-09 02:36 PM - Post#86822
In response to Brewer
You might be told that someone would shoot their way into the school if the door was locked, this has never happened except in Hollywood!
It really wouldn't be necessary to shoot their way in. All it would take is talking their way in which as noted by other posters probably wouldn't be hard.
The money to put in a locking front door was mentioned to be on the order of $250,000 for ALL of the elementary schools. This money exists and does not have to come from anywhere else.
The money may exist but it certainly will have to come from someplace else. The distric has to make budget decisions and set priorities all of the time. I seriously doubt they have money sitting around unallocated.
Martel, No offense but I'm thinking you don't have children. When I didn't have any I would not have given this issue a second thought.
While Martel may not have children many others who post on this board do have children in the schools. I do not find the cause completely unreasonable but some of the tactics used are questionable at best. Responding to every single inquiry about any school by screaming that there is zero security at Allen schools is the tactic that Martel was objecting to and I share that frustration.
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964Allen
member
Posts: 30
Reg: 12-07-08
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06-02-09 02:42 PM - Post#86823
In response to denisew
I can understand both sides of this argument. For that reason, I'm not taking either side in this post or have any plans of doing so. I just wanted to make the point that the purpose of the RAPTOR program and the person who runs it is not to protect the school against the type of attacks being discussed here. The following is a link to the information released by the district when the program was put into place. It gives a description of what the program is used for.
http://www.allenisd.org/aisdweb.nsf/Content/NR0807...
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Brewer
enthusiast
Posts: 1285
Reg: 06-02-07
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06-02-09 02:49 PM - Post#86824
In response to sco
The fact remains that there is zero security. Had I known that I would not have moved here. Now I'm here and working to change the way things are done. I spoke to several parents that assumed the front doors were locked during the day but had never had time to visit the school to know otherwise.
Where you at the school board meeting that when was reported that the money WAS available? I was. I first offered to pay for the improvements at the campus my son attends and was rebuffed, I later offered to fund raise and was rebuffed so I really don't care if where the money came from but it is there.
Again, just because another district has a layer of security and does not use it does not mean it can't be done the right way.
B
A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week.
-GEN George S. Patton
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Brewer
enthusiast
Posts: 1285
Reg: 06-02-07
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06-02-09 02:50 PM - Post#86825
In response to 964Allen
Thanks 964!
A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week.
-GEN George S. Patton
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Martel_Locke
enthusiast
Posts: 106
Loc: Allen, Texas
Reg: 04-07-08
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06-02-09 03:02 PM - Post#86827
In response to chf
"What good does a "highly trained,quick response police force and SWAT team" do when the guy has simply run through the door and taken control of the school?
Do you REALLY think there is an SRO at the schools full time? I hate to disabuse you of that notion but you would be wrong. There are two full time at AHS but there are none that are full time at ANY elementary campus."
There are 2 SROs full-time at AHS and I remember seeing one SRO the majority of the school day at Ford when I attended it 4 years ago. As for elementary school there is no need for any SROs therefore there are none.
"Someone who is off their rocker and being told by god to go to a school and kill a bunch of kids is probably not going to meet ANY resistance! There were SROs at Columbine that waited for HOURS before going towards school."
Columbine was a different day and age in which nobody had seen a school shoooting on that scale until that day. In the modern day police will not stand outside of a school as they hear shot after shot, they will take immediate action.
"You speak of response times. There was a shooter in NY earlier this year that expended close to 100 rounds in less than two minutes. I was told by an SRO that the average response time to the school closest to me was 2.5 minutes. That's a bunch of shooting time there sport."
Which is unfortunate because a locked door can only do so much to stand up against a man determined to get in and 100 rounds of ammunition.
"I think it's a much better plan to at least try to keep the wackos outside where they don't have a school full of 400 targets. I lock the front door of my house, Don't you?"
I do, but people aren't constantly moving in and out without keys. And again, if someone wants in to my house they would be able to manage to gain access through one of our dozen downstairs windows or one of the three doors only one of which is metal.
"Maybe you run every time you feel that things are not going your way? I don't, I stay and get things changed."
Which I admire, but the manner of which you are attempting to do so is of poor choice. Every single time a newcomer brings up elementary schools you are there to bring all of AISD down and roll them in the dirt and thus scaring off said newcomers.
"As far as what other districts do or don't do. Richardson locks the front door, Lovejoy has what amounts to a mantrap like what you might see at a jail or an appointment only jewelry store. Frisco locks the front door. The bottom line is I don't care what any other district does for the same reason your mommy didn't care if your friends got their ears pierced. My kids don't go to those districts they go to AISD."
Well if you don't care so much about the other districts why are you trying to emulate them so much? Personally I would rather not go to school in a prison....
"I have been working within the system to get it changed since I picked up my first kindergarten packet over three years ago and have been met with little more than platitudes and hostility.Don't rock the boat in Allen!!"
Speaking of platitudes....
Rocking the boat generally is met with resistance no matter where you go. If you are meeting exceptional resistance maybe thats a hint.
"I have no fantasy that any plan would keep out a well rehearsed GROUP of hitters but the reality is that most school attackers are single actors that moved quickly into the school,shoot or stab until the police show up and then kill themselves or go quietly."
Which is why locked doors would stop little. Even a locked door can be unlocked by a sinister person with a good excuse.
"Sure it does not happen often but the last time a kid was burned to death was over 50 years ago but you can't turn around in a school w/o seeing sprinklers and extinguishers. I assure you that those are not free either."
Come to think of it that is a good reason to not lock the doors. That is not my primary problem with this proposition.
"You might be told that someone would shoot their way into the school if the door was locked, this has never happened except in Hollywood! There have been hundreds of school shootings in the last 20 years and that has never occurred."
And in the last 200 years there has never been a school shooting in Allen yet you fear it will happen. If a school shooting could happen in Allen, a shooter could very well break a glass door.
"What makes Allen so special that it could never happen here? On the contrary. If someone was looking for a place to really make a statement how long would it take them to find out that AISD thinks a RAPTOR machine and a staffer to run it are ALL that stands between them and 400 bargaining chips or targets."
Nobody ever said it couldn't happen here, but you assume that a locked door or an armed guard would stop said person from making that statement.
"Those of you that expound on how safe you feel at the school need to realize that nowhere is truly safe but mitigating a threat does not make you weak or paranoid it simply makes you a little more prepared. You wear a seat belt and lock your car doors don't you."
Again with the personal questions. I am not against being pro-safety but I am whole-heartedly against fear mongering.
"While you can't be ready for everything does that mean you should stay unprepared for anything? Locke the front door. B"
Hah, he's punny too.... Granted being prepared for everything is the best you can get it, but in all honesty locking the doors solves nothing, I'll explain in a post later.
"The money to put in a locking front door was mentioned to be on the order of $250,000 for ALL of the elementary schools. This money exists and does not have to come from anywhere else."
Above statement repeated.
"Martel, No offense but I'm thinking you don't have children. When I didn't have any I would not have given this issue a second thought."
No, I do not have children, better yet, my own life is the one at stake when something happens at AHS. I have grown up in Allen and attended Anderson, then Bolin, Ford, Lowery and now Allen High. I was here for the bomb hoaxes in the early 2000's and remember the ridiculous number of heroin deaths in Plano, and when half of Wylie burned in a drought. I fully understand where you are coming from I have a sister that is 9 and goes to Bolin. I am for heightened security but within reason. If I was looking for a home in north texas and visited a school in Allen and saw a SRO officer sitting in the office, I would say "hey great!" then question if there was a specific reason why they had to be there, what crime called for the intense security? If I seemed contradictory above it was because I wrote two halves of this 3 hours apart, so let me restate my position: I have no problem with proper school security but the way that Brewer has gone about spreading his message is what has prompted this conversation.
I'll ramble less and contradict myself less in the coming posts
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vrs
enthusiast
Posts: 2630
Loc: Allen, Texas
Reg: 04-20-00
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06-02-09 03:39 PM - Post#86830
In response to Martel_Locke
According to the CDC, more than 200,000 children 14 years of age and younger are injured each year in playground accidents. Most of these accidents are associated with climbing equipment, slides and swings.
More than 1/3 of all playground injuries are severe, with children incurring fractures, internal injuries, concussions, dislocations, and amputations.
Approximately 15 children die each year from these injuries.
Should we remove all the playground equipment from the schools?
Other leading causes of injuries and fatalities among children in this age group include abuse at the hands of a caregiver, car accidents, and - in slightly older children - suicide.
While not dismissing the tragedy that might result from an armed intruder, the fact is that if one is inclined to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on making children safer, there are other preventive initiatives that are statistically far more likely to actually make children safer than storefronts on schools that are only locked during non-peak traffic times.
| Blessed be the cracked, for they let in the light. |
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RRRquilter
enthusiast
Posts: 1243
Loc: Allen
Reg: 05-02-05
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06-02-09 03:50 PM - Post#86833
In response to vrs
My child broke a bone on the playground this year and he was just playing with another child. So even eliminating the playground equipment would have not helped his situation.
I personally do not live in the fear that Brewer does. My kids have a greater chance of dieing with me driving them all over town then they do in the school. I would rather not have the front doors at the schools locked. Just my personal preference.
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Brewer
enthusiast
Posts: 1285
Reg: 06-02-07
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06-02-09 04:00 PM - Post#86836
In response to vrs
VRS, Why did you never respond to the ten or so e-mails I sent the board on this subject while you were president?
As far as play ground injuries I think you would find that the majority of serious accidents that occurred on "playgrounds" happened at sites that were not configured the way they are here in Allen. I have seen school playgrounds in Michigan that have 8-10 foot drops onto asphalt. The structures @ AISD are over several inches of much softer wood chips. Many older play areas have pinch points that a newer one will not have. There is more chance of getting hurt on any old and poorly maintained school playground. You must also consider the fact that an inner city playground may be old, in poor repair and built over a non-shock absorbing surface. Bottom line you are comparing apples to rocking chairs and I think you know it.
A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week.
-GEN George S. Patton
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Brewer
enthusiast
Posts: 1285
Reg: 06-02-07
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06-02-09 04:03 PM - Post#86837
In response to RRRquilter
When did I say I lived "IN FEAR"? That is called transference. I live in the real world. I do what I can to be careful and prepared and then what happens,happens. There is an old maxim I live by. It's better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.
A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week.
-GEN George S. Patton
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Robin L
enthusiast
Posts: 826
Reg: 12-19-07
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06-02-09 05:52 PM - Post#86842
In response to Martel_Locke
Martel,
Very well said. This is the best post I have read from you. No, I'm not being sarcastic, but truly giving you a compliment. I'm not even remotely aware of the ages of the posters on here, but I bet most are adults. To have a high school student weigh in on some of these topics is awesome, IMHO. But this post, also IMHO, was very well debated.
As for the topic, I can't begin to know which side of the fence to sit. I haven't really thought about it. Do I want the district to do every thing humanly possible to keep my child safe? Absolutely. But to what extent and where to draw the line? Both sides here so far have very valid arguments. Unless the schools were prisons - with guards everywhere, wire fences, checking in, being scanned and patted down before visiting, bullet proof buildings, glass, doors, and whatever else I see on tv (no personal experience here) - there is no way to keep the children completely safe. Would locking doors be a deterrent, especially if truly manned the way it should be? Maybe, maybe not. I just don't know.
However, Brewer, I do have to agree with everyone here that the way you come across in replies to potential Allenites is a bit harsh. I can understand your position and reasoning - you are trying to warn other parents of the lack of security, or at least lack of it to your standards, as compared to other districts, and that they should consider that when making such an important decision on where to send their children to school. I admire that. I admire your tenacity to not keep quiet, to be the squeeky wheel so-to-speak. One day your passion may turn into reality. My objection is to the tone that's used. Perhaps if you were to say, "X school is a great school, it earned high marks in xyz - or I'm not sure about X school because my child(ren) are at Y school - but one thing you should consider is that the district doesn't require the doors to be locked in off-peak hours, and I've made it my personal mission to attempt some changes, as I would feel safer with that added level of security. But that's my choice." Instead, it seems you are really angry about it, and it's like "hey, don't think about coming here because the district has absolutely no security and your children won't be safe against some lunatic." No, you are not using that exact language, but that's how it comes across. That's the inference people make and why it seems everyone is hating on you about it. I don't think people completely disagree with you (some may, but still). I think they are just not happy on how it comes across to a potential Allenite, that's all.
As for vrs not responding...not completely sure, but it might have something to do with Open Meetings, not wanting to make promises she can't keep, not wanting to give you incorrect or wrong information, legal issues or advice from an attorney...I don't know, that's for her to respond if she choses. I just thought I'd throw that out there - that there may be a strong reason she and other Board members didn't respond.
That's my 2 cents.
Edited by Robin L on 06-02-09 05:56 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Maurice
Community Expert
Posts: 3980
Loc: Allen, TX
Reg: 12-03-01
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06-02-09 06:31 PM - Post#86845
In response to Robin L
I applaud Brewer for his attitude towards preventative measures rather than our usual societal reactive measures. Too many people here in Allen seem to think people who are security conscious like that may 'live in fear' but the fact of the matter is, the real world is a dangerous place. While Allen has not been touched by any school violence as has been described here (and I hope it NEVER happens!!), wishing and hoping it never happens doesn't offer any safety and security. It's good to see people wanting to take an active role in enacting stronger security, the key is to balance that with what resources are available and trying to be an uninvasive as possible.
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Robin L
enthusiast
Posts: 826
Reg: 12-19-07
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06-02-09 06:42 PM - Post#86847
In response to Maurice
I agree.
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vrs
enthusiast
Posts: 2630
Loc: Allen, Texas
Reg: 04-20-00
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06-02-09 07:05 PM - Post#86848
In response to Robin L
As for vrs not responding...not completely sure, but it might have something to do with Open Meetings
I have in my mailbox (that I can find) two emails from Brewer to team of 8. May have been one earlier - I have changed laptops. Anyway, the first I have is dated 8/28/08 and it received a personal response from the superintendent on behalf of the Board explaining when the issue of concern would be on the agenda as well as the timing and process for development of the security report and how to provide input.
The Board has an annual calendar and each academic and operational area is reviewed once each year - there is a two month process of gathering questions, providing feedback, and generating the report.
There was another email on 9/15/08 from Brewer indicating the response was deemed insufficient.
I also sent Brewer a private message reminding him when the subject would be on the Board's agenda. He attended the meeting to hear the discussion and came back the following month to comment in open forum.
I do believe that prior to the August email, there was correspondence and at least one meeting with staff.
So to say Brewer's concerns were "ignored" is somewhat disingenuous. What Brewer did not receive was the answer he wanted.
And that's okay - lots of parents cannot agree on what is best for their own children so it is not surprising that adults who do not share the same background or values or experiences would arrive at different conclusions about what is best for the kids.
The "locked" storefronts will be freewheeling during the main traffic periods (start and end of school) so anyone on God's green earth who intended harm could blend with the crowd and either open fire right away or hide until things quiet down a bit. The "locked" storefronts will only be really in operation during the lower traffic times of the day when a stranger is more likely to be noticed anyway.
You have already seen in this thread where the raptor system in Allen actually appears to be doing a better job of tracking who goes in and out than "I'm here to have lunch with my child" - "okay!" BUZZ
If we are going to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars keeping kids safe, and knowing what I know about what actually harms children here in our district, I personally do not believe the "locked" storefronts are the best use of that resource.
In short, the locked storefronts create an appearance of being safe. I would rather work on actually being safe.
That being said, I think they are already going in on the new campuses and the retrofit is basically an administrative decision. And I am fine with that (not that it matters anymore!) because I understand that different people can look at the same circumstances and draw different conclusions.
| Blessed be the cracked, for they let in the light. |
Edited by vrs on 06-02-09 11:45 PM. Reason for edit: Replacing Brewer's given name
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Robin L
enthusiast
Posts: 826
Reg: 12-19-07
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06-02-09 08:19 PM - Post#86855
In response to vrs
Wow! Didn't intend for so much personal detail, but that does shed some light on where Brewer is - or is not - coming from. Some say none of the Board responds. I tend to think that if the Board *could* respond personally, or that a personal response is warranted, they would; otherwise there is a PR person or some other individual (in this case the superintendent) who answers. I can think of so many reasons why the Board shouldn't answer individually (though I did get a personal response from one still there thanking me for my appreciation email I sent in January).
It's good to know that some of Brewers efforts are not in vain. I really appreciate ANYONE who volunteers their own time to champion an important cause or give time to schools, neighborhoods, cities, causes, etc. We would not be the nation we are without helping each other and trying to improve where we live.
And your statement "In short, the locked storefronts create an appearance of being safe. I would rather work on actually being safe." is exactly what I took an entire paragraph to say in my earlier post - very succinct!
Brewer, I sure hope you understand where some of us are coming from. I don't mean to be rude and I hope you don't feel that way.
Edited by Robin L on 06-02-09 08:20 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Robin L
enthusiast
Posts: 826
Reg: 12-19-07
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06-02-09 08:22 PM - Post#86856
In response to Robin L
OK, so, on this topic, I must ask - those of you who want more security, what things would you like? What seems appropriate?
Those of you who think we shouldn't add anything extra, why do you feel that way?
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sco
enthusiast
Posts: 2667
Loc: allen,TX USA
Reg: 10-26-02
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06-02-09 08:44 PM - Post#86857
In response to Robin L
There is always a trade off when it comes to security. We could make the schools look like armed camps and they might be safer but I wouldn't want my children there. I have heard numerous complaints this year about the new security rules chasing parents and volunteers away. Other people think the security rules are too lax. There is no answer that will please everyone.
From my personal perspective I am happy with the security at my children's schools with one exception. I worry about kids moving in and out of the portable buildings. There is absolutely nothing stopping somebody from driving up and grabbing a kid or a kid deciding he/she didn't want to be at school that day and just taking off or some kid picking on another kid outside. They do have security cameras but they are monitored at the high school. I'm not sure what the answer is other than to get rid of the portables but I worry about my kid being out there next year.
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wetvet
enthusiast
Posts: 582
Loc: Allen
Reg: 02-26-07
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06-02-09 09:41 PM - Post#86861
In response to sco
What a thought provoking topic. While I do not have a great suggestion on how to make the schools safer, I will say I have to commend anyone who feels as passionately about this topic as the OP does.
I had a shop teacher once who had a padlock on the door to the toolroom cage but the top portion of the door was open. I asked him what good the lock did if you could still reach through with some effort and grab the tools. He replied "Sometimes a lock is the only thing that keeps honest people honest. Criminals will steal regardless." In an odd way this might apply here. If the doors were locked, it might dissuade someone who might be semi-unstable from creating a disasterous situation at one of the schools. Someone who really wants to get in, will find a way.
I have one child at AHS and 2 children at one of the Middle Schools and obviously I pray that nothing like what has been mentioned ever happens to them. However, it has to be in the back of the mind if something does happen that the OP was right, was there more that could have been done to make it as safe as possible while still maintaining the integrity of a quality learning institution.
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Robin L
enthusiast
Posts: 826
Reg: 12-19-07
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06-02-09 10:52 PM - Post#86864
In response to wetvet
If the doors were locked, it might dissuade someone who might be semi-unstable from creating a disasterous situation at one of the schools. Someone who really wants to get in, will find a way.
Very good point.
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Brewer
enthusiast
Posts: 1285
Reg: 06-02-07
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06-02-09 10:54 PM - Post#86866
In response to wetvet
Thanks for the kind words folks!
VRS your use of my name in a response on this board is a little uncalled for. I don't have anything to hide but that is information that you had access to only due to your position on the board. You seem just a hair vindictive and that's the tone I have received from the entire AISD since I started trying to correspond with the board back in October of 2006 so I should have expected no less. DAN
A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week.
-GEN George S. Patton
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vrs
enthusiast
Posts: 2630
Loc: Allen, Texas
Reg: 04-20-00
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06-02-09 11:42 PM - Post#86868
In response to Brewer
Actually, you yourself told me your name in a message on this board about a year before any mail to the team of 8 and I often use first names.
Your being on TV at the board meeting notwithstanding, I'll go back and edit the earlier post as you are displeased at the use of your first name.
I have tried to be respectful to you and your views in my posts - but also I finally felt the need to set the record straight on the repeated "ignored" accusations because it can color perceptions of the Board on so many other topics.
Now returning the thread to the regularly scheduled topic.....
| Blessed be the cracked, for they let in the light. |
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Brewer
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Posts: 1285
Reg: 06-02-07
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06-03-09 12:23 AM - Post#86870
In response to vrs
I first wrote the board in October of 2006 (It's still on my PC) and the receipt was confirmed via e-mail, I first registered here in June of 2007. You dates simply do not add up. Tell me, how many times should a constituent have to try to open a discussion with an elected board and over exactly what period of time? DAN
Parts of this e-mail were redacted to protect the PRIVACY of some AISD employees. That's just how I roll.
>From: [email protected]>To: "Dan Subject: Re: Security At Elementary>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 15:22:41 -0600>>Mr. ->>Thank you for taking time to write the Team of Eight concerning security at> Elementary School.>>Your suggestion is one of several the school district is examining in a>review of security procedures this fall. No decisions have been made at>this time.>>I will forward your note to Dr. , assistant superintendent>for administrative services, who is handling this review. I will also>forward your note to the Board of Trustees as requested.>>>>Public Information Office>
A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week.
-GEN George S. Patton
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Edited by Brewer on 06-03-09 07:19 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Retired 1
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Reg: 02-20-02
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06-03-09 06:03 AM - Post#86873
In response to Brewer
You basically lost all credibility when you said they ignored ALL of your emails and then it's proved you were responded to.
Champion your cause but don't puff or exaggerate. Honesty is the best policy.
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Brewer
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Posts: 1285
Reg: 06-02-07
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06-03-09 06:18 AM - Post#86874
In response to Retired 1
The e-mail was received by the PIO but never responded to by the board. The PIO is not a decision maker. An e-mail telling me when a board meeting is going to occur is not addressing the content of an e-mail either. An e-mail confirming that an e-mail was recieved is not an answer. Was there correspondence of a one way nature? Yes. Where there ever answers to my concerns? No. I asked earlier is this thread of VRS why SHE never responded while she was in a position to do something.
A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week.
-GEN George S. Patton
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Edited by Brewer on 06-03-09 06:56 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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sco
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Loc: allen,TX USA
Reg: 10-26-02
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06-03-09 08:12 AM - Post#86876
In response to Brewer
You've just proven the point that you did get a response you just didn't get the response you wanted to hear. Just because somebody doesn't agree with you does not mean they didn't hear you. There is a process in place for citizens to try to influence district decisions. It sounds to me like the process was followed. I do understand that what you want is to sit down with the board and have a protracted discussion so you can make your point. There is a strong possibility that doing that would violate open meetings rules. Additionally, the board members generally have full time jobs in addition to their board duties. It is not really realistic to expect them to meet personally with every citizen that sends an email. The system allows for citizens to send email and address the board at public meetings which is exactly what you did.
Edited by sco on 06-03-09 08:19 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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teamtopdog
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06-03-09 03:08 PM - Post#86909
In response to Retired 1
 
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Brewer
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Posts: 1285
Reg: 06-02-07
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06-04-09 11:33 AM - Post#86961
In response to Retired 1
So if I correspond with you and tell you I have a house to sell and you respond "I got your letter and I understand you have a house to sell." Is that a response? No, it's simply an acknowledgment of my message.
I understand that you and TD want to sell houses and the fact that there is no security at the schools may cause people to choose other places to buy. That is part of why I am aggressive here. If you have a problem with that consult the Constitution or the owner of this site.
I have never had any meeting with any member of AISD other than the superintendent many months ago regardless of what VRS infers. The superintendent did send me a follow up letter that was simply a reiteration of what we discussed. Still no dialog and no action.
When I became disgusted there was an e-mail from a very new member of the board that ensured me that she knew I thought there was a problem but still no dialog and no action from the board.
It appears now after nearly three years there may be some plans in the works for substainally what I desired in the first place so I don't care what any citizen of Allen thinks about me regarding this. I have been the Dirty Dog for AISD since this started and now maybe that can stop. Thanks for all the messages from those of you that support this plan. Again, no plan is perfect but don't let perfect be the enemy of the good. Goodbye
A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week.
-GEN George S. Patton
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Edited by Brewer on 06-04-09 11:42 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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chf
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Loc: NW Allen
Reg: 12-22-07
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06-04-09 11:54 AM - Post#86964
In response to Brewer
the fact that there is no security at the schools
Again, here is the problem I (and others) have with your approach. THERE IS SECURITY AT THE SCHOOLS! Just not as much as you (and probably others) would like. If the district put in exactly what you would like done, I guarantee there would be someone else screaming just as loud that it still isn't enough.
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tobywong419
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Posts: 11
Reg: 05-28-09
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06-07-09 02:27 PM - Post#87086
In response to Brewer
Dan,
There appears to be a lot of misdirected anger here. As in our previous correspondence on this site, you have opened with a gripe, met little community support, and then turned things personal.
Perhaps a more effective method would be to listen to the input of others, and consider the possibility that your original assertion might not be without room for improvement.
A fair portion (one might even go so far as to say a majority) of the folks who have posted here seem to be saying either:
a) I'm fine with school security as stands.
or
b) I'm not fine with security as stands, but I'm not sure your idea will really help.
So not a lot of consensus here, but that's ok. We all have our opinions.
Now we hit the "the school board ignored me argument" when, in point of fact, you later said they did not. They just didn't answer your question in the precise way that you wanted. Also ok, I just might not have misrepresented it were it me.
Furthermore, through all of this, it looks like you are getting what you want. I'm not convinced that your personal charisma and charm were the difference makers, but your cause appears to championed successfully. Put one in the "W" column for smoke and mirror security.
I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'.
| Excuse me, Mr. Pink, but I think the last thing you need is another cup of coffee. -Nice Guy Eddie |
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Brewer
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Posts: 1285
Reg: 06-02-07
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06-07-09 02:31 PM - Post#87087
In response to chf
What security is there at the schools?
A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week.
-GEN George S. Patton
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Brewer
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Posts: 1285
Reg: 06-02-07
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06-07-09 02:34 PM - Post#87088
In response to Brewer
Toby Wong. I can see that you responded but I have you on ignore.
A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week.
-GEN George S. Patton
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sco
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Posts: 2667
Loc: allen,TX USA
Reg: 10-26-02
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06-07-09 03:03 PM - Post#87089
In response to Brewer
What security is there at the schools?
I understand that no matter what I say it will not satisfy Brewer. I will answer for the benefit of other people reading this thread. I'm just a parent so I don't necessarily know all of the security features. What I see on a daily basis include the following:
The side doors are kept locked at all times.
The front door is monitored by a receptionist and visitors are required to sign in and run their driver's license through the Raptor system.
They have security cameras in and around the school that are monitored at the front desk and by security officers at the high school.
Staff members are trained to ask questions of people who are in the school.
They have SRO officers assigned to be on call to the schools.
The system may not be perfect but it is not nothing.
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LisaMay
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Loc: Allen TX USA
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06-07-09 03:33 PM - Post#87091
In response to sco
I will only add that even Allen ISD maintenance personnel are required to sign in when they enter a school. These are people with shirts on that say, "Allen ISD Maintenance" and school ID badges on. My children are now at AHS, and I've never heard of any issues at any of the schools in Allen. I've never been concerned about security at the schools, but that's just me.
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vrs
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Loc: Allen, Texas
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06-07-09 11:33 PM - Post#87118
In response to LisaMay
The one circumstance I am aware of was when an irate parent was let in through a locked side door by someone in the building "being nice" and not making them walk all the way around.
They did not make it into the classroom for a confrontation because the teacher - per standard procedures - had the door locked.
Storefront had nothing to do with it, but the second layer of physical security served the purpose.
Brewer, it may or may not occur to you, but by ignoring Toby Wong you prove his point.
| Blessed be the cracked, for they let in the light. |
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campbellfam
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Loc: Allen, TX, USA
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06-08-09 10:15 AM - Post#87131
In response to vrs
I also know that the teachers have to sign in and out when ever they come and go from their campus.
I have seen teachers and other staff escort individuals to the front of the school if that person doesn't have a badge.
And let me just say that I have often found that tight security can often lead to complacency; "The security's so good, it will take care of our safety" We often get into trouble when we depend on others to take care of us- the best security is when technology is just a support system to good, diligent staff and volunteers.
If you don't believe me, check out some reports about air travel security...
| Unless specified above, this post is not directed toward anyone in particular. |
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csquare
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Loc: Allen
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06-08-09 10:27 PM - Post#87189
In response to Brewer
I can think of plenty of schemes to gain entry to a school that have nothing to do with the front door. I think you'd only be kidding yourself to "secure" the front door in the way you propose.
Also, I have visited many schools in three local districts for various reasons. Yes, the suspicion level with unknown visitors does vary from school to school, but all of them only required a moderately plausible explanation to buzz me in anyway--whether or not they were expecting me.
Has anybody out there ever been completely denied access to any school in any district?
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DrivinTooFast
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06-12-09 01:49 PM - Post#87505
In response to csquare
AHS is so open, physical security in nearly impossible. Doors are opening closing all over the school for various reasons and getting in is absolutely no problem.
The problem with a large campus is that it acts more like a college than a middle school from a security standpoint.
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Brewer
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Posts: 1285
Reg: 06-02-07
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08-21-10 11:15 PM - Post#117073
In response to vrs
I have let this topic go for several months, but I have noticed that it has gotten 25 or so new reads in the last couple of weeks. I will address a few issues here.
First, several posters in this thread have made reference to the high school. To be clear, as the subject line states, I am addressing the elementary campuses.
Second, I'm sure you have read the handout in your "Meet the Teacher" packet touting the "RAPTOR" system as a security tool. Please know that the company that sold Raptor to AISD does not call it a security system. It is a tool that provides little more information than what is already available on the web FOR FREE. The subscription runs up to $70,000 per year depending on the district not to mention the high five figure start-up cost. I believe the information is useful, but I would not call it security.
Third, SCO stated:
The side doors are kept locked at all times. The front door is monitored by a receptionist and visitors are required to sign in and run their driver's license through the Raptor system. They have security cameras in and around the school that are monitored at the front desk and by security officers at the high school.
The receptionist, Raptor and cameras are sufficient for the vast majority of visitors that are there to eat lunch with their children or volunteer at the school. The disturbed, hallucinating person bent on destruction or the estranged parent bent on murder/suicide will simply not stop to get a little green sticker.
Fourth, SROs are "assigned" to campuses, but they are not at the elementary schools full time. I have been told that their "average response time" is 2.5 minutes. Again, a deranged person can cause a lot of damage in that amount of time.
Fifth, VRS stated this.
They did not make it into the classroom for a confrontation because the teacher - per standard procedures - had the door locked.
Parents, please be advised that locking the classroom doors IS NOT standard procedure at the elementary schools.
A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week.
-GEN George S. Patton
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jrob
member
Posts: 75
Loc: Allen
Reg: 04-29-09
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08-21-10 11:47 PM - Post#117074
In response to Brewer
Uh, the last post to this thread was 14 months ago.
Time to lock this thread and move on. Nothing to see hear.
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Brewer
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Posts: 1285
Reg: 06-02-07
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08-23-10 08:00 AM - Post#117121
In response to jrob
Just heard an SRO at an E. School say that he now covers FIVE campuses.
A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week.
-GEN George S. Patton
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Edited by Brewer on 08-23-10 08:08 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Boogie
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Posts: 67
Reg: 05-30-06
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08-24-10 10:33 AM - Post#117240
In response to Brewer
I don't think this thread should be locked, I was interested in the new things Brewer had to say and I'm sure others were as well.
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vm7mm
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09-09-10 07:06 AM - Post#118175
In response to Boogie
I agree, updates should always be welcomed.
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