DrivinTooFast
enthusiast
Posts: 1874
Reg: 02-20-08
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06-12-09 01:49 PM - Post#87505
In response to csquare
AHS is so open, physical security in nearly impossible. Doors are opening closing all over the school for various reasons and getting in is absolutely no problem.
The problem with a large campus is that it acts more like a college than a middle school from a security standpoint.
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Brewer
enthusiast
Posts: 1421
Reg: 06-02-07
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08-21-10 11:15 PM - Post#117073
In response to vrs
I have let this topic go for several months, but I have noticed that it has gotten 25 or so new reads in the last couple of weeks. I will address a few issues here.
First, several posters in this thread have made reference to the high school. To be clear, as the subject line states, I am addressing the elementary campuses.
Second, I'm sure you have read the handout in your "Meet the Teacher" packet touting the "RAPTOR" system as a security tool. Please know that the company that sold Raptor to AISD does not call it a security system. It is a tool that provides little more information than what is already available on the web FOR FREE. The subscription runs up to $70,000 per year depending on the district not to mention the high five figure start-up cost. I believe the information is useful, but I would not call it security.
Third, SCO stated:
The side doors are kept locked at all times. The front door is monitored by a receptionist and visitors are required to sign in and run their driver's license through the Raptor system. They have security cameras in and around the school that are monitored at the front desk and by security officers at the high school.
The receptionist, Raptor and cameras are sufficient for the vast majority of visitors that are there to eat lunch with their children or volunteer at the school. The disturbed, hallucinating person bent on destruction or the estranged parent bent on murder/suicide will simply not stop to get a little green sticker.
Fourth, SROs are "assigned" to campuses, but they are not at the elementary schools full time. I have been told that their "average response time" is 2.5 minutes. Again, a deranged person can cause a lot of damage in that amount of time.
Fifth, VRS stated this.
They did not make it into the classroom for a confrontation because the teacher - per standard procedures - had the door locked.
Parents, please be advised that locking the classroom doors IS NOT standard procedure at the elementary schools.
A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week.
-GEN George S. Patton
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jrob
member
Posts: 98
Loc: Allen
Reg: 04-29-09
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08-21-10 11:47 PM - Post#117074
In response to Brewer
Uh, the last post to this thread was 14 months ago.
Time to lock this thread and move on. Nothing to see hear.
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Brewer
enthusiast
Posts: 1421
Reg: 06-02-07
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08-23-10 08:00 AM - Post#117121
In response to jrob
Just heard an SRO at an E. School say that he now covers FIVE campuses.
A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week.
-GEN George S. Patton
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Edited by Brewer on 08-23-10 08:08 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Boogie
member
Posts: 73
Reg: 05-30-06
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08-24-10 10:33 AM - Post#117240
In response to Brewer
I don't think this thread should be locked, I was interested in the new things Brewer had to say and I'm sure others were as well.
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vm7mm
enthusiast
Posts: 1527
Loc: Allen Tx usa
Reg: 08-12-04
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09-09-10 07:06 AM - Post#118175
In response to Boogie
I agree, updates should always be welcomed.
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Brewer
enthusiast
Posts: 1421
Reg: 06-02-07
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12-28-12 03:45 PM - Post#158304
In response to vm7mm
At the last school board meeting we were told that changes are coming. I am skeptical but we shall see.
A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week.
-GEN George S. Patton
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Edited by Brewer on 12-29-12 10:38 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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mgrayar
enthusiast
Posts: 3859
Reg: 09-25-09
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12-29-12 08:33 AM - Post#158306
In response to Brewer
They said within the week they planned to announce something. That was on the 17th. Your skepticism is probably warranted.
Learn more about Cystic Fibrosis and how you can help at:
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Allensince1993
enthusiast
Posts: 521
Reg: 06-06-12
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12-29-12 10:12 AM - Post#158308
In response to Brewer
Unless you have armed security and metal detectors at all doors you're not going to stop a crazy idiot. It's just the world we live in and i'm comfortable with the policies we currently have in place. Every time I go to a mall, a theatre, or any place we have risk. It just is what it is...
James DeLaGarza
Realtor/Broker since 1992 |
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Brewer
enthusiast
Posts: 1421
Reg: 06-02-07
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12-29-12 10:39 AM - Post#158309
In response to Allensince1993
So we should do nothing? I just want to be clear.
A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week.
-GEN George S. Patton
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DrivinTooFast
enthusiast
Posts: 1874
Reg: 02-20-08
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12-29-12 11:02 AM - Post#158310
In response to Allensince1993
Unless you have armed security and metal detectors at all doors you're not going to stop a crazy idiot. It's just the world we live in and i'm comfortable with the policies we currently have in place. Every time I go to a mall, a theatre, or any place we have risk. It just is what it is...
This is absolutely correct - there are some risks in life that are simply inherent in living. Likewise the thought of every school in America being a mini armed encampment is no way to live life. See Palestine and Isreal for reference. Keep in mind a armed assailant charged into an Amish school with 14 kids in it and killed several. There is no protection from madness. The current system is a joke and it will always be a joke because it can only apply to law abiding citizens and is designed to make soccer moms feel more secure. Security is nothing but an illusion. A determined armed assailant will overpower ANY civilian based security. Also keep in mind having guns inside a home or building makes it both safer in some regards and a bigger target in others.
Edited by DrivinTooFast on 12-29-12 11:08 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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chf
enthusiast
Posts: 574
Loc: NW Allen
Reg: 12-22-07
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12-29-12 11:31 AM - Post#158311
In response to Brewer
What else can be done that will be truly effective? Armed guards? That didn't work at Columbine. Locked front entrance with buzzer? That didn't work at Newtown. Armed teachers? A really bad idea for so many reasons.
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jogo
enthusiast
Posts: 1475
Reg: 08-31-05
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12-29-12 12:24 PM - Post#158314
In response to Brewer
Doing "nothing" would mean that AISD has no security measures in place at all and that all campuses are open to anyone and everyone 24/7. I hardly think that AISD is doing "nothing". Could some improvements be made? Certainly, but let's not say that "nothing" is being done in regards to school security.
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Brewer
enthusiast
Posts: 1421
Reg: 06-02-07
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12-29-12 03:07 PM - Post#158317
In response to jogo
You may not every be able to stop EVERY attack but AISD does not try to stop any attack.
There was an armed person that was assigned to Columbine and he was at lunch when the killing began.
You say that the lock door at Newtown "didn't work". Tell that to the parents of the kids that were able to shelter in place when they were warned of the impending attack as the killer was shooting out a window to make entry.
Kids were pulled out of the halls by teachers and put into cabinets and closets. In this case the locked door caused at least a few seconds of delay that saved kids from being shot in the face.
Allen ISD can't even be bothered to do that.
The body count could have been much higher had it not been for that simple locked door.
JOGO, There is NOTHING to stop anyone from coming off the street and killing our children. I guess that is what leads me to say there is no security. If you are not stopping the very simplest threat then all the cameras and RAPTOR and SROs don't mean a thing.
A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week.
-GEN George S. Patton
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rw
member
Posts: 617
Reg: 10-11-01
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12-29-12 04:22 PM - Post#158319
In response to Brewer
Serious question...what would you propose AISD do to secure the Elementary Schools?
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Brewer
enthusiast
Posts: 1421
Reg: 06-02-07
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12-29-12 11:09 PM - Post#158326
In response to rw
Six years ago I proposed to Ken Helvey an interior sally port where people could wait to be IDed and checked into the building. No ID or no business in the school you don't get in.
This is not a perfect solution but it is infinitely better than what is in place now which is a nice old lady handing out stickers to people that are nice enough to stop and talk with her and not make her victim #1.
Until the latest attack there were none on record in which a person forcibly breached a locked door so I think that a locked front door that is MANAGED and closed off from the rest of the school is a good start.
A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week.
-GEN George S. Patton
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Brewer
enthusiast
Posts: 1421
Reg: 06-02-07
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12-29-12 11:13 PM - Post#158327
In response to chf
Why are armed teachers such a bad idea? Even if no teacher in a given school carried, the fact that schools were off the list of places that are prohibited to carry would make schools safer.
The bad guys want a weapon free zone so they can get lots of killing done before the police have a chance to respond. Put a little doubt in their mind.
A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week.
-GEN George S. Patton
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DrivinTooFast
enthusiast
Posts: 1874
Reg: 02-20-08
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12-30-12 12:00 AM - Post#158328
In response to Brewer
Brewer,
Frankly I do not want to send my kids to an armed military camp in the 5th safest city in America. There are risks in life just like there is a risk a teacher with a gun might have a really bad day and decide to take out the little terrorist in the classroom throwing spitwads against the chalkboard. You cannot mitigate away all the risks of breathing and being human. I haved worked in high security areas and even there risks exist - See Ft. Hood shooting for reference. You can body cavity search and DNA ID every mom having lunch with junior and you will be no safer from insanity with highly leathal weapon.
Even if you were able to stop the madman with a SA AR or FA AR, you still cannot stop a minivan full of explosives from driving right through a wall and detonating. You cannot stop a nerve attack or serin gas ro VX or heck even a natural gas explosion. The risks are endless, but the irrational response is to over compensate and hold too tight.
The only real answer is to hug the kiddos a little longer, make them feel safe and secure. We get in cars every day, step onto planes, even eat a twnkie past it's expiration without a thought that those simple everyday events are far more likely to cause harm to us or our families than any madman with a weapon and a deathwish.
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Boogie
member
Posts: 73
Reg: 05-30-06
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12-30-12 06:30 PM - Post#158347
In response to Brewer
Six years ago I proposed to Ken Helvey an interior sally port where people could wait to be IDed and checked into the building. No ID or no business in the school you don't get in.
This is not a perfect solution but it is infinitely better than what is in place now which is a nice old lady handing out stickers to people that are nice enough to stop and talk with her and not make her victim #1.
Until the latest attack there were none on record in which a person forcibly breached a locked door so I think that a locked front door that is MANAGED and closed off from the rest of the school is a good start.
I would support this.
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c3lost
member
Posts: 79
Loc: allen, texas
Reg: 08-24-01
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01-14-13 08:55 PM - Post#158607
In response to Boogie
Check the school website. Elementary schools have a new procedure.
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