denisew
Community Expert
Posts: 8759
Loc: Allen, TX
Reg: 02-18-02
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06-29-09 04:12 PM - Post#88801
I am back to looking at a new software to build my website. Has anyone used either of these?
http://www.wysiwygwebbuilder.com/index.html
or
http://www.freeserifsoftware.com/software/WebPlus/...
Please let me know of your experiences with either or both of these. I don't want to download anything until I get other opinions. I appreciate your input.
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Tiff
enthusiast
Posts: 137
Reg: 07-26-07
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06-30-09 10:37 PM - Post#88905
In response to denisew
I use dreamweaver and it is considered wysiiwyg. Problem is that if you don't know what you are doingm, then "what you see" doesn't look so good. If you are not planning on becoming a website developer, then I would stay away from software (especially if not well known). You could look into templates. Otherwise, if you want your site to look nice/professional, you should look into hiring a professional.
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AllenNerd
member
Posts: 34
Loc: Allen
Reg: 06-21-09
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07-01-09 10:14 AM - Post#88925
In response to Tiff
I agree with the templates. Too often we get caught up in the design of a site because that's the sexy part and we forget about the content which is what drives people to the site in the first place.
Templates allow you to "set it and forget it" so you can focus on what's really important. A step beyond that look at Content Management Systems where you define a template and things like sidebars and navigation become components that are called dynamically. Take a look at free programs like Joomla and Drupal. They take a little time initially to set up but then require no technical knowledge to update the site. Another plus is that there are tons of free templates for each of those that you can tweak so you look like a professional with little effort.
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denisew
Community Expert
Posts: 8759
Loc: Allen, TX
Reg: 02-18-02
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07-01-09 10:51 AM - Post#88928
In response to AllenNerd
What is the cost of Dreamweaver? I'm looking for something that is easy to set up a website with more than 10 pages, photos, links to other websites and lots of information. It also has to be very inexpensive.
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AllenNerd
member
Posts: 34
Loc: Allen
Reg: 06-21-09
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07-01-09 01:11 PM - Post#88938
In response to denisew
Dreamweaver isn't the way to go then. Manufacturer says $399 but Royal Discount has it for $280. Normally I'm wary of super cheap online because they often have shady software but I dealt with them once before and got what I paid for.
Try Kompozer which is free. Also, webmonkey.com is a great resource for tutorials on all things web. Finally, if you're going to be developing a lot consider installing XAMPP. It's a package containing the Apache webserver, Perl, PHP, and MySQL. You can use it to develop your site locally and then upload when things look right. It will save you time.
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aaron
enthusiast
Posts: 485
Reg: 12-20-05
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07-01-09 02:21 PM - Post#88947
In response to AllenNerd
Nothing from Adobe comes cheap.
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denisew
Community Expert
Posts: 8759
Loc: Allen, TX
Reg: 02-18-02
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07-01-09 03:08 PM - Post#88950
In response to aaron
I will look at the information you all have supplied, but I still am waiting on an answer for my original question. Has anyone used the website software at the links I posted?
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AllenNerd
member
Posts: 34
Loc: Allen
Reg: 06-21-09
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07-01-09 04:11 PM - Post#88956
In response to denisew
Sorry. I don't use WYSIWYG. I prefer VIM or Notepad will do.
I did go through a period of Dreamweaver use because it came with my Adobe suite. I was blown away by the power and features of it but I still prefer learning it by hand coding.
Consider what features your site will contain and check the feature list for each of the products. Maybe that will help. I will say that the first choice has online tutorials and templates which I consider added value.
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Joe Schirmer
enthusiast
Posts: 1325
Loc: SE Allen
Reg: 06-30-08
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07-01-09 10:15 PM - Post#88976
In response to AllenNerd
Sorry. I don't use WYSIWYG. I prefer VIM or Notepad will do.
Heathen! Emacs is the best editor for web design!!!!!
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rclark
enthusiast
Posts: 800
Loc: Allen, TX
Reg: 01-16-08
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07-01-09 10:44 PM - Post#88978
In response to Joe Schirmer
Ah, you sissy - the IBM 029 keypunch is all you need for HTML ...
(and you get all the chads to play with, too)
Two plus two equals five, for sufficiently large values of two.
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AllenNerd
member
Posts: 34
Loc: Allen
Reg: 06-21-09
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07-02-09 07:39 AM - Post#88985
In response to Joe Schirmer
Oh no! I hear a holy war brewing!
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Don4
enthusiast
Posts: 370
Loc: Allen 1993
Reg: 04-11-06
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07-02-09 08:55 AM - Post#88988
In response to rclark
I used those in college for my watfiv class. I had stacks of cards for my projects. I was hoping to never see one of those machines ever again.
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Joe Schirmer
enthusiast
Posts: 1325
Loc: SE Allen
Reg: 06-30-08
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07-02-09 10:07 AM - Post#88995
In response to Don4
Real programmers use Emacs!
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 Webmaster
Community Manager
Posts: 3110
Loc: Allen, Texas
Reg: 01-24-00
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07-02-09 11:00 AM - Post#88997
In response to Joe Schirmer
Everyone:
Please stay on topic and help answer the original topic question.
If you what to discuss a related matter start a new topic please.
Web
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Joe Schirmer
enthusiast
Posts: 1325
Loc: SE Allen
Reg: 06-30-08
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07-02-09 03:52 PM - Post#89010
In response to Webmaster
I'm sorry, but to me it seems like you are being a bit harsh.
A few off-topic posts are to be expected and make the forum a little more interesting. The vi/emacs rivalry is older than the web (see the link in my previous posting). If it really started getting carried away then I would see why you would want to jump in, but I don't think it was.
Of course this is your forum and you have the complete right to enforce any rules you wish and behave any way you wish. I too have the right to only frequent only the web sights which I believe are interesting, useful (which Allen Online is), and friendly. Please help keep this a friendly web site.
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AllenNerd
member
Posts: 34
Loc: Allen
Reg: 06-21-09
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07-02-09 04:16 PM - Post#89013
In response to Joe Schirmer
I'm new to the forums but I agree with the squirrel. :)
I'm not concerned about a little friendly banter messing up the signal to noise ratio. It's through these little exchanges that we learn more about our fellow members and personally I would prefer a relaxed discussion area rather than a test-like q&a exchange. Besides, it's not like we the AOLers of the past posting nothing but "me too's".
I don't mind hearing from a few crazies (EMACS users) :) on here either.
However, it is your forum and your rules and I certainly appreciate the resource you provide.
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sco
enthusiast
Posts: 2670
Loc: allen,TX USA
Reg: 10-26-02
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07-02-09 04:33 PM - Post#89016
In response to denisew
Denise,
I haven't used either of the programs you are looking at. I used Trellix which was included in the tools of my hosting company. I use startlogic to host. The tool worked pretty well for what I wanted and it was quick and easy. The problem with it is that I am now stuck using their software or starting over. If I had it to do over again I would use something that isn't proprietary. You might want to look into Joomla. It is really just a set of templates but it is a free open source system that should be supported by many hosting companies. I haven't used it but it has been recommended to us. If you have access to a Mac you could use iWeb. I haven't used it either but have been told it is very quick and easy to use. It writes standard HTML so it should be portable. Once you have the system set up you could tweak the HTML by hand which isn't very hard. Writing HTML from scratch isn't hard either but it is pretty tedious.
Is the garden club a 5013c non-profit? If so, you can apply to get Adobe or Microsoft software at a significantly reduced price. PT me if you want the details.
Edited by sco on 07-02-09 04:36 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Webmaster
Community Manager
Posts: 3110
Loc: Allen, Texas
Reg: 01-24-00
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07-02-09 06:58 PM - Post#89019
In response to Joe Schirmer
Joe Schirmer, AllenNerd,
I absolutely have no problem with your banter. And, of course it is the nature of these types of forums. However, I would like to see the original get some answers to their question if possible.
Your discussion is a very interesting one and I'm sure others would like to jump it. That's why starting another topic would be a good idea.
Web
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Joe Schirmer
enthusiast
Posts: 1325
Loc: SE Allen
Reg: 06-30-08
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07-02-09 09:44 PM - Post#89027
In response to Webmaster
Starting another topic for banter is not a good idea. It breaks the flow of the messaging and makes no sense without the context of the previous messages.
I think it would be much easier to put up with a little banter before you come down on someone.
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Webmaster
Community Manager
Posts: 3110
Loc: Allen, Texas
Reg: 01-24-00
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07-03-09 12:43 AM - Post#89035
In response to Joe Schirmer
Sorry we don't agree. And sorry you misread my request as "coming down" on someone. I thought I was polite.
My message was:
"Everyone:
Please stay on topic and help answer the original topic question.
If you what to discuss a related matter start a new topic please."
Allen finds it on. . . Allen Online! |
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Joe Schirmer
enthusiast
Posts: 1325
Loc: SE Allen
Reg: 06-30-08
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07-03-09 07:10 AM - Post#89040
In response to Webmaster
And yet your "please stay on topic" message is even more jarring to the flow of conversation than any side banter. It feels more intrusive, and it feels like a "warning" when it comes from the webmaster. (you better behave, or else...)
Yes I know you try to improve the user experience on this web site, but policing the forums for a few off topic messages does not help. I feel that it is having the opposite effect.
When you have a forum board which doesn't allow multi-threading of topics then you need to learn to put up with a certain amount of side banter and chatter otherwise you stifle conversation. Users will be unsure when it is allowed to reply in a message thread (i.e. "Can I answer this persons question who isn't the OP but yet had a slightly related question?").
Is this want you want? Should posters not reply to anyone else but the OP of a topic?
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AllenNerd
member
Posts: 34
Loc: Allen
Reg: 06-21-09
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07-03-09 08:09 AM - Post#89041
In response to Joe Schirmer
Ironically, this thread has now gotten to the point where I would expect it to be moved to a new topic.
However, I agree with Joe. What are you concerned will happen if you let even a little OT talk happen? Have you had serious problems in the past? Is it worth the ill will generated by having folks feel that you're looking over their shoulder constantly?
I enjoy getting a chance to answer PC questions from other posters. The small amounts of off-topic banter is rewarding to me as well. Otherwise I feel like I'm sitting in a call center keeping small-talk to a minimum in order to up my key performance indicators.
I know I could always go and start my own forum if I don't like the rules here but I like what you've started. Don't you agree that a little OT chat won't destroy the value of the forums?
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sco
enthusiast
Posts: 2670
Loc: allen,TX USA
Reg: 10-26-02
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07-03-09 08:25 AM - Post#89042
In response to AllenNerd
Denise is not getting an answer to her question because the discussion has veered off of her original request. All webmaster was trying to do was veer the thread back. If the answer to Denise's question were in this thread somewhere she would have to read through several pages of banter that she may not be interested in and does not answer her question. That is what webmaster is trying to prevent. He never said the discussion was bad just off topic. It's his website he makes the rules.
Back to Denise's original question whatever you use I would make sure what you end up with does not tie you into a proprietary system.
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AllenNerd
member
Posts: 34
Loc: Allen
Reg: 06-21-09
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07-03-09 08:49 AM - Post#89044
In response to Joe Schirmer
I could see starting another thread for a legit topic but this was more of a joke than a legitimate "hey, let's discuss this". EMACS vs. VI is a debate as old as the hills. It's good-natured and more akin to "taste great/less filling" debate anymore.
At this point I do feel that we've now flooded the topic with so much extraneous discussion that it will be difficult for the OP to find any legit answers so I won't be responding anymore on the topic.
Denise, sorry we've taken this so off course.
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Webmaster
Community Manager
Posts: 3110
Loc: Allen, Texas
Reg: 01-24-00
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07-03-09 10:55 AM - Post#89049
In response to sco
Denise is not getting an answer to her question because the discussion has veered off of her original request. All webmaster was trying to do was veer the thread back. If the answer to Denise's question were in this thread somewhere she would have to read through several pages of banter that she may not be interested in and does not answer her question. That is what webmaster is trying to prevent. He never said the discussion was bad just off topic. It's his website he makes the rules.
Back to Denise's original question whatever you use I would make sure what you end up with does not tie you into a proprietary system.
Thank you.
Everyone please back to the op.
Allen finds it on. . . Allen Online! |
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Joe Schirmer
enthusiast
Posts: 1325
Loc: SE Allen
Reg: 06-30-08
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07-03-09 12:01 PM - Post#89051
In response to Webmaster
Everyone please back to the op
But it is OK for you to post off topic and expect us not to?
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Robin L
enthusiast
Posts: 826
Reg: 12-19-07
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07-03-09 01:11 PM - Post#89053
In response to Joe Schirmer
YES! It's HIS deal, not ours!
Denisew, I emailed 2 web people with your question to get it answered and neither of them has used the software in question. It appears that you may not get an answer to your original question. So sorry!
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Joe Schirmer
enthusiast
Posts: 1325
Loc: SE Allen
Reg: 06-30-08
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07-03-09 04:36 PM - Post#89061
In response to Robin L
YES! It's HIS deal, not ours!
His deal? What do you mean by this? That he owns the message forums? Yes he does, and he can make the rules he likes and enforce them as he likes.
I, on the other hand, can point out to him when he is being unreasonable and inconsistent.
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Webmaster
Community Manager
Posts: 3110
Loc: Allen, Texas
Reg: 01-24-00
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07-03-09 04:53 PM - Post#89063
In response to Joe Schirmer
Folks,
Let's all please move on and back to the orignial topic.
Use the PM feature if you wish to discuss this any further.
Web
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Joe Schirmer
enthusiast
Posts: 1325
Loc: SE Allen
Reg: 06-30-08
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07-03-09 10:34 PM - Post#89086
In response to Webmaster
Haven't you figured out that each time you try to force things back "on subject" that it is just agitating the debate instead? This "off topic" discussion would have died a long time ago if you just kept quiet and let the initial banter die out on it's own. Your controlling attitude has now become the subject of these "off-topic" messages.
If you would learn to have a more "hands-off" management style you would find that topics will normally police themselves. Yes you will have banter (there are very few topics which don't), but if you stifle the banter too much you will loose users who would choose to spend there time someplace where they won't be as harshly treated.
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denisew
Community Expert
Posts: 8759
Loc: Allen, TX
Reg: 02-18-02
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07-05-09 11:48 AM - Post#89128
In response to Joe Schirmer
Thanks all. I did ask another source about the two links in question and got my answer. You all lost me when you started talking about all that other junk. I'm not a very technical person when it comes to programming / html stuff, although I do put forth a good effort and try to learn. I appreciate those who did try to help though.
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readingu
enthusiast
Posts: 705
Reg: 02-08-04
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07-05-09 12:38 PM - Post#89130
In response to denisew
(1and1.com) - check out their demo. My wife liked and signed up. And if she can use it, most anyone can.
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denisew
Community Expert
Posts: 8759
Loc: Allen, TX
Reg: 02-18-02
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07-06-09 06:25 AM - Post#89139
In response to readingu
I use 1 and 1 for hosting. We downloaded the webbuilder 6 and it looks like I will be able to use that one. It seems to be fairly easy to learn to use.
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readingu
enthusiast
Posts: 705
Reg: 02-08-04
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07-06-09 05:12 PM - Post#89179
In response to denisew
Download http://www.seamonkey-project.org/.
Once you get it installed...it's another browser application, you can design your pages using the functions in the Menu bar.
Under file use new and which will allow you to compose and publish your pages like Dreamweaver.
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denisew
Community Expert
Posts: 8759
Loc: Allen, TX
Reg: 02-18-02
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07-06-09 06:12 PM - Post#89181
In response to readingu
Is that the software that is at 1 and 1?
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readingu
enthusiast
Posts: 705
Reg: 02-08-04
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07-07-09 11:12 AM - Post#89215
In response to denisew
1 and 1 is template based, but editable. The SeaMonkey outfit is associated with Mozilla, that has he FireFox browser. Once installed, it is a browser for the web. But built inside the browser is an application stand alone that allows you to compose your own web pages. Might be a bit much but it allows you a free way to learn and build and publish your own web pages.
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denisew
Community Expert
Posts: 8759
Loc: Allen, TX
Reg: 02-18-02
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07-08-09 06:39 AM - Post#89270
In response to readingu
I actually have something started on the Webbuilder 6 package. I really like it so far. It is html based so all browsers will be able to view all the pages without any trouble. You'll know when my website is updated. It will look totally different. It might take me a couple more weeks to get everything done though.
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Wil H
newbie
Posts: 1
Loc: Allen
Reg: 06-25-09
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07-31-09 01:18 PM - Post#91049
In response to denisew
I did some work for a guy recently, and his wife build a website with a program called Serif or Serif2, or something like that (you can Google it).
I looked at the site, and the software on her computer briefly and it seemed like it was pretty easy for her to use. Lots of drag-n-drop.
Definitely think about what you want to accomplish with your site before going with a WYSIWYG.
#1, don't underestimate the importance of the principles of design. There are a lot of places on-line that will give you a brief overview of this that will help you to make your site look better, and be more readable. You'd do well to do some reading on that before you start. You don't have to be an expert on the subject, but you can definitely pick up a few things that will help you in your design.
#2, I looked at the source code for my friend's wife's site, and the WYSIWYG software gave all of her DIVs (basically containing blocks used in CSS for laying out elements on a page) were given ID's of strings of numbers, which means that her site was not semantically correct. (you can google that too, but basically it means that your header DIV is called 'header' or something similar, etc).
If you're just building a small site and not expecting much traffic, or great search engine rankings, etc you should be fine, that's why I said that you should consider your objectives.
The advice about using templates, I think was good. You should probably consider that before you go with a WYSIWYG program. I don't know how easy they are to customize, but it will save you having to worry about the design aspect of it.
This was kind of long winded... hope it helped a bit.
Edited by Wil H on 07-31-09 01:18 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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denisew
Community Expert
Posts: 8759
Loc: Allen, TX
Reg: 02-18-02
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08-01-09 10:46 AM - Post#91081
In response to Wil H
I completed my website in about two weeks working on it on and off. It is up and running. I'm very happy with it as well are the members of the Allen Garden Club.
Allen Garden Club
www.allengardenclub.org
"I am a little pencil in the hand of a writing God who is sending a love letter to the world." - Mother Teresa |
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mspam3
enthusiast
Posts: 2198
Loc: Allen TX
Reg: 03-10-07
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08-01-09 04:11 PM - Post#91098
In response to denisew
This was my first visit to the garden club website. Very nice and informative!! I think with all the info you have provided on it I could turn my brown thumb green! Great job!
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denisew
Community Expert
Posts: 8759
Loc: Allen, TX
Reg: 02-18-02
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08-01-09 09:09 PM - Post#91133
In response to mspam3
Thank you! You are also welcome to come to our meetings - all are welcome - and the people in the garden club are kind and "down to earth!"  Couldn't help the pun!
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