lcr2004
enthusiast
Posts: 2384
Reg: 03-10-05
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06-30-10 11:21 AM - Post#113846
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/ lat...
The arts hall is a nice idea, but common [fiscal] sense dictates that this project needs to be put on hold - at least until sales tax revenues show some organic increases.
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pup
enthusiast
Posts: 3755
Reg: 03-29-06
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06-30-10 11:29 AM - Post#113848
In response to lcr2004
Would this arts hall be visible from the new Eagle World being built?
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sco
enthusiast
Posts: 2667
Loc: allen,TX USA
Reg: 10-26-02
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06-30-10 12:18 PM - Post#113853
In response to lcr2004
I disagree. I find it very hard to buy that the economic conditions in Frisco are significantly different than in Allen and Plano. They made a commitment to the project. Construction costs are down now and will only rise in the future. They claim they are still committed to the project but it could be years before they will be willing to sell the bonds. Personally that screams to me that they really aren't committed to the project. They need to be honest and if they aren't going to be behind it step up and say so now so the other two cities can move forward. This project has been under discussion for close to a decade. I think it is time to make it happen or kill it. Continuing to drag it out, spend money, accept donations, and make promises for something that may never happen is a complete waste.
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starrlac
enthusiast
Posts: 642
Loc: Allen, TX
Reg: 11-03-00
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06-30-10 12:37 PM - Post#113854
In response to pup
No, it's not. It will be near Ridgeview/Exchange/121.
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jrob
member
Posts: 75
Loc: Allen
Reg: 04-29-09
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06-30-10 01:06 PM - Post#113856
In response to lcr2004
The arts hall is a nice idea, but common [fiscal] sense dictates that this project needs to be put on hold - at least until sales tax revenues show some organic increases.
I must strongly disagree. Construction costs are significantly lower (20-25%) making now the perfect time to be starting construction projects. By the time the bonds are sold and the construction starts, sales tax revenue and property values will increase.
Your suggestion to wait would also indicate you are okay with the construction costs being 25% higher than they would be if we built today.
I also believe the current Frisco Council is not supporting the project because it is in Allen and not Frisco. They won't say that publicly, but if you review their list of projects 'for Frisco', you'll see quite a list of construction projects.
The Frisco voters already gave their approval for the project, the current council just doesn't want it.
Edited by jrob on 06-30-10 01:13 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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JasonKA
enthusiast
Posts: 173
Reg: 04-04-07
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06-30-10 02:00 PM - Post#113860
In response to jrob
I also believe the current Frisco Council is not supporting the project because it is in Allen and not Frisco. They won't say that publicly, but if you review their list of projects 'for Frisco', you'll see quite a list of construction projects.
While I'm torn on the issue because I do like to have financial restraint during tough economic times, I do wonder if the Frisco hold-out has more to do with it not being in Frisco.
I can see it now...they back out and then a few years down the road, we'll see their plans to build their own facility in their city.
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pup
enthusiast
Posts: 3755
Reg: 03-29-06
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06-30-10 02:03 PM - Post#113863
In response to JasonKA
While I'm torn on the issue because I do like to have financial restraint during tough economic times, I do wonder if the Frisco hold-out has more to do with it not being in Frisco.
I can see it now...they back out and then a few years down the road, we'll see their plans to build their own facility in their city.
That would be my guess too.
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DrivinTooFast
enthusiast
Posts: 1347
Reg: 02-20-08
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06-30-10 03:34 PM - Post#113868
In response to pup
The Frisco Tea party has characterized the ACC as an Allen project. The political sabre rattling goes like this....
Why should we send money to Allen when there are better projects within Frisco to spend our money on.
So it is not really about not having the money, it's more about wanting to spend it on THIS council's pet projects (Frisco's grand park and the railroad museum) not the last council's pet project - the ACC.
It has all been political posturing by a few of the council members and the Frisco tea party using this issue to rally support for their local agenda.
It's does not help that Mike Simpson is the face of this project and there is a significant Anti-Simpson group in Frisco's current council.
Frankly I think Simpson is not the right guy to be running the ACC. Too much baggage and way too little communication to the respective councils. The three city meeting was a joke and turned into a dog and pony presentation followed by a complete exposure of Simpson's lack of communication to the councils. For $150K per year in salary to watch over a field of grass, there should be at least monthly reports to each council and extensive canvassing of each city to firm up support for the project. All three cities should be intimately aware of the position of each other and there should be no surprises (plano's support for the project) in an open forum meeting.
Edited by DrivinTooFast on 06-30-10 03:36 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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DrivinTooFast
enthusiast
Posts: 1347
Reg: 02-20-08
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06-30-10 03:39 PM - Post#113869
In response to lcr2004
I believe Allen DOES in fact have organic growth of sales revenues helped in part by the Outlet mall, Watters Creek and the Shops in Allen.
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lcr2004
enthusiast
Posts: 2384
Reg: 03-10-05
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06-30-10 06:22 PM - Post#113885
In response to DrivinTooFast
I believe Allen DOES in fact have organic growth of sales revenues helped in part by the Outlet mall, Watters Creek and the Shops in Allen.
Organic meaning it doesn't exist just because you plopped something new in the city and thus have sales you wouldn't have had before. Let's see some year over year growth.
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lcr2004
enthusiast
Posts: 2384
Reg: 03-10-05
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06-30-10 06:25 PM - Post#113887
In response to jrob
I must strongly disagree. Construction costs are significantly lower (20-25%) making now the perfect time to be starting construction projects. By the time the bonds are sold and the construction starts, sales tax revenue and property values will increase.
Nice Straw Man you've got there.
Ignore the potential shortfalls in our budget in the near to mid-term and instead focus on "savings" that may or may not exist in greater amounts on down the line. Same goes with property value increases - let's say we see a decade of deflation (like Japan since the early 90s)...property values going up isn't a sure thing.
The only thing that is a sure thing is that spending money and putting yourself in debt decreases your flexibility on down the line, something that is invaluable in uncertain times. Where ever you are going, leverage will get you there faster - true for individuals, cities, and sovereign nations.
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DrivinTooFast
enthusiast
Posts: 1347
Reg: 02-20-08
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07-01-10 09:29 AM - Post#113929
In response to lcr2004
Who cares about Y over Y. As long as you are expanding the tax base and incremental revenues - you are fine. This recession will not last forever, you need to look beyond this week for a project with this lifespan. You are looking strait up and trying to predict the weather next week.
I believe Allen DOES in fact have organic growth of sales revenues helped in part by the Outlet mall, Watters Creek and the Shops in Allen.
Organic meaning it doesn't exist just because you plopped something new in the city and thus have sales you wouldn't have had before. Let's see some year over year growth.
Who cares about Y over Y. As long as you are expanding the tax base and incremental revenues - you are fine. This recession will not last forever, you need to look beyond this week for a project with this lifespan. You are looking strait up and trying to predict the weather next month.
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Nickel
enthusiast
Posts: 271
Loc: Allen, TX
Reg: 01-18-05
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07-01-10 10:10 AM - Post#113930
In response to DrivinTooFast
Frisco voters agreed to the project and at least three times have decided not to take any action that would remove them from that agreement. They're dragging their feet because they weren't financially responsible enough to weather a recession and it is really starting to get on my nerves.
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DrivinTooFast
enthusiast
Posts: 1347
Reg: 02-20-08
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07-01-10 10:39 AM - Post#113933
In response to Nickel
No, they have the cash.
They lost their willingness to put money into this prject because it does not align with the current council's list of pet projects.
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lcr2004
enthusiast
Posts: 2384
Reg: 03-10-05
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07-01-10 10:42 PM - Post#113970
In response to DrivinTooFast
Who cares about Y over Y. As long as you are expanding the tax base and incremental revenues - you are fine. This recession will not last forever, you need to look beyond this week for a project with this lifespan. You are looking strait up and trying to predict the weather next month.
Yeah, ok. YoY growth doesn't matter. How could I be so stupid?
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