Aolain
enthusiast
Posts: 1194
Reg: 11-13-06
|
08-13-10 12:21 AM - Post#116492
Considering securing our southern border.
Given that the border with Mexico is essentially open and this is a security threat to our nation...
1) creating a wall is most likely impossible
2) how do we reduce the number of border crossers?
Here is a reactionary (possible) solution.
Let the people of Mexico know (in a variety of ways, to include signs along the border) that if they enter the United States illegally they are liable to be shot.
Now, we could deploy, say, an air attack brigade to patrol the border (Apache helicopters). They can be given a "weapons free" order in certain areas of the border...that is shoot on sight.
We could also deploy troops in certain areas authorized to shoot on sight border crossers. We could establish mobile ambushes along route of illegal entry.
Once a few are shot, I believe that border crossing would dry up almost over night.
This would require a state of emergency to be declared in the border counties. We would need to steel ourselves for some killing...perhaps of women and children.
I believe, however, that the people of Mexico are not stupid. Once they see that we are killing people crossing our border illegally the flood of immigration will essentially stop overnight.
This is a drastic solution, I will admit, but if we wish to regain control of our southern border, I think we will need to engage in some drastic action.
|
mgrayar
enthusiast
Posts: 3163
Reg: 09-25-09
|
08-13-10 06:26 AM - Post#116493
In response to Aolain
Well that would definitely keep a lot of people from trying. Of course tourism in Mexico would be completely wiped out for America. I could see many vengeance killings on the beaches if Cabo and such. But hey, tourism dollars could then stay closer to home. Of course American tourism is a source of many jobs in Mexico. If these jobs go away, more people will be willing to risk getting shot. Ohhhh, my brain hurts.
Although you were definitely being provocative to see the response, it is a good topic to discuss. How do we secure a border that large with an endless supply of people who are willing to risk everything just to get past it?
Learn more about Cystic Fibrosis and how you can help at:
http://www.cff.org
Everyone can make a difference! |
Edited by mgrayar on 08-13-10 06:26 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
|
nomoon
enthusiast
Posts: 983
Loc: Allen
Reg: 05-31-06
|
08-13-10 07:29 AM - Post#116494
In response to Aolain
1) creating a wall is most likely impossible
Why is that? Politically impossible, or physically? I've heard estimates that a wall/fence could be built for ~$8 billion.
Now, we could deploy, say, an air attack brigade to patrol the border (Apache helicopters)...
...Once a few are shot, I believe that border crossing would dry up almost over night.
Once a few are shot, holy heck would break out on both sides of the border and elsewhere. Are you seriously proposing this, or just interested in seeing how others respond? I can imagine the effect that casualty photos would have all over the world. I think that most Americans and non-Americans would argue that this is not a humane way to control the border. Former East block countries and North Korea aren't too worried about being humane, but we are.
I can imagine only a few extreme situations where this might be considered acceptable by a significant number of people: coordinated attacks by large groups from the Mexican side, or credible proof of nukes being successfully smuggled across and exploded.
|
chf
enthusiast
Posts: 492
Loc: NW Allen
Reg: 12-22-07
|
08-13-10 08:16 AM - Post#116497
In response to Aolain
The thing that's most scary and disappointing to me is that there are a significant number of people in the US that would wholeheartedly support everything you said - and those same people would be in the group that most strongly insist that the US is a "Christian" nation. Nothing says "Christian" like gunning down poverty stricken men, women, and children making a dangerous border crossing to try to make a better life for themselves.
|
Aolain
enthusiast
Posts: 1194
Reg: 11-13-06
|
08-13-10 09:23 AM - Post#116502
In response to chf
Indeed.
I really do not support what I put in my post--though I strongly support gaining control of the border.
The question is, can we control it? Have we lost control of the border?
Now while I do not support shooting "border crossers" I would support a "shoot on site" policy against armed civilian border crossers, and against any Mexican military or police personnel who cross into our nation.
As to a wall...how many miles is it, from San Diego to Brownsville?
|
nomoon
enthusiast
Posts: 983
Loc: Allen
Reg: 05-31-06
|
08-13-10 09:34 AM - Post#116503
In response to Aolain
As to a wall...how many miles is it, from San Diego to Brownsville?
Maybe there is someone here with more knowledge on the subject, but I think that most plans are for a heavy duty fence with sensors, and a road that runs along the US side of the fence. I think that a transparent fence is preferred because it's possible to see what's on the other side.
|
Al C
enthusiast
Posts: 5538
Loc: McKinney/Allen, TX
Reg: 02-16-01
|
08-13-10 09:34 AM - Post#116504
In response to chf
The thing that's most scary and disappointing to me is that there are a significant number of people in the US that would wholeheartedly support everything you said - and those same people would be in the group that most strongly insist that the US is a "Christian" nation. Nothing says "Christian" like gunning down poverty stricken men, women, and children making a dangerous border crossing to try to make a better life for themselves.
More subtle Christian bashing? Is that what the Soap Box has become? There've been lots of shots taken at Christians lately on this forum.
I'm a Christian. I do NOT by any means support anything like what has been suggested in this topic. It's murder ... plain and simple.
|
sco
enthusiast
Posts: 2669
Loc: allen,TX USA
Reg: 10-26-02
|
08-13-10 09:36 AM - Post#116505
In response to Aolain
As to a wall...how many miles is it, from San Diego to Brownsville?
Let's not forget also that at least part of the border is a river which doesn't give us nice straight immovable lines to work with. Do we want to destroy the ecology and beauty of places like Big Bend by putting a giant concrete wall through the middle of it? Steve Blow wrote a pretty good column yesterday about the problem. I don't agree with everything he proposed but his suggestion was to come up with some form of ID system that is much more tamper resistant, impose tougher sanctions for faking an ID, and to impose tougher sanctions against employers that knowingly hire illegals. He also acknowledged that there would need to be some reasonable guest worker program.
|
Al C
enthusiast
Posts: 5538
Loc: McKinney/Allen, TX
Reg: 02-16-01
|
08-13-10 09:41 AM - Post#116506
In response to sco
As to a wall...how many miles is it, from San Diego to Brownsville?
Let's not forget also that at least part of the border is a river which doesn't give us nice straight immovable lines to work with. Do we want to destroy the ecology and beauty of places like Big Bend by putting a giant concrete wall through the middle of it? Steve Blow wrote a pretty good column yesterday about the problem. I don't agree with everything he proposed but his suggestion was to come up with some form of ID system that is much more tamper resistant, impose tougher sanctions for faking an ID, and to impose tougher sanctions against employers that knowingly hire illegals. He also acknowledged that there would need to be some reasonable guest worker program.
Makes sense. Can you provide a link to his article?
|
sco
enthusiast
Posts: 2669
Loc: allen,TX USA
Reg: 10-26-02
|
08-13-10 09:56 AM - Post#116509
In response to Al C
Here's the Link .
|
Al C
enthusiast
Posts: 5538
Loc: McKinney/Allen, TX
Reg: 02-16-01
|
08-13-10 10:07 AM - Post#116510
In response to sco
Good read. Thanks for the link. I think he sums up the issue very well with one sentence ...
"We can't keep making it easy to live here illegally and ever expect illegal immigration to diminish."
|
mgrayar
enthusiast
Posts: 3163
Reg: 09-25-09
|
08-13-10 10:24 AM - Post#116513
In response to Aolain
Indeed.
I really do not support what I put in my post--though I strongly support gaining control of the border.
The question is, can we control it? Have we lost control of the border?
Now while I do not support shooting "border crossers" I would support a "shoot on site" policy against armed civilian border crossers, and against any Mexican military or police personnel who cross into our nation.
As to a wall...how many miles is it, from San Diego to Brownsville?
You know who's good at building walls and provides cheap labor, the Chinese. I think they have some experience with even longer border protection. Maybe we outsource the wall like we have the majority of our production.
Just kidding of course!!
Learn more about Cystic Fibrosis and how you can help at:
http://www.cff.org
Everyone can make a difference! |
|
Maurice
Community Expert
Posts: 3981
Loc: Allen, TX
Reg: 12-03-01
|
08-13-10 04:21 PM - Post#116548
In response to Aolain
I've often said that the only way to gain control of the border back would be to create a free fire zone. No one in this country in the right position, has the backbone to stand up and say "no more" and shut the border down. Very few people have a problem with people from Mexico or elsewhere from coming here, we have a SERIOUS beef with them coming here by illegal means.
It would take a serious physical barrier of some sort and the manpower to manage it correctly. It would cost us plenty of dollars but in the long run would save us money. The reason we'd never see it is because it would cost political points to anyone who supported it. While there would be screeching over it, the political loss wouldn't be as big as the pols think. Yea, they may lose the illegals vote but they'd gain the Americans vote.
|
chf
enthusiast
Posts: 492
Loc: NW Allen
Reg: 12-22-07
|
08-15-10 01:51 PM - Post#116650
In response to Al C
The thing that's most scary and disappointing to me is that there are a significant number of people in the US that would wholeheartedly support everything you said - and those same people would be in the group that most strongly insist that the US is a "Christian" nation. Nothing says "Christian" like gunning down poverty stricken men, women, and children making a dangerous border crossing to try to make a better life for themselves.
More subtle Christian bashing? Is that what the Soap Box has become? There've been lots of shots taken at Christians lately on this forum.
I'm a Christian. I do NOT by any means support anything like what has been suggested in this topic. It's murder ... plain and simple.
Al, not at all (I'm a good Baptist, myself). My point is that there are a lot of political/cultural Christians who say that the US is a "Christian" nation founded on Christian beliefs (which it is not - a totally different topic). These same people would be a large portion of the crowd who would support gunning down illegal border crossers. There are also a lot of Christians (like me) and non-Christians who would see this like you - murder on a grand scale.
|
Al C
enthusiast
Posts: 5538
Loc: McKinney/Allen, TX
Reg: 02-16-01
|
08-15-10 03:36 PM - Post#116653
In response to chf
The thing that's most scary and disappointing to me is that there are a significant number of people in the US that would wholeheartedly support everything you said - and those same people would be in the group that most strongly insist that the US is a "Christian" nation. Nothing says "Christian" like gunning down poverty stricken men, women, and children making a dangerous border crossing to try to make a better life for themselves.
More subtle Christian bashing? Is that what the Soap Box has become? There've been lots of shots taken at Christians lately on this forum.
I'm a Christian. I do NOT by any means support anything like what has been suggested in this topic. It's murder ... plain and simple.
Al, not at all (I'm a good Baptist, myself). My point is that there are a lot of political/cultural Christians who say that the US is a "Christian" nation founded on Christian beliefs (which it is not - a totally different topic). These same people would be a large portion of the crowd who would support gunning down illegal border crossers. There are also a lot of Christians (like me) and non-Christians who would see this like you - murder on a grand scale.
Understood. Thanks for clarifying.
|
