blast
enthusiast
Posts: 262
Reg: 02-23-05
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08-20-10 02:04 PM - Post#116982
If or when Iran builds a nuclear weapon and please I do not believe for one second it is for peaceful energy purposes, why would we in the USA should be so concerned if the Arabs, Europeans and Asians are not pushing the issue as hard as we are?
I don't believe Iran would be stupid enough to go down the road of attacking anyone with a nuclear weapon, I don't think nuclear Iran is any less dangerous than nuclear Pakistan or Russia for that matter. For Iran it seems more an issue of pride rather than energy needs.
What do you think we should do here? aside from the preemptive strike idea? we don't want to tarnish again the illustrious image our commander in chief has accomplished in the world.
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Aolain
enthusiast
Posts: 1194
Reg: 11-13-06
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08-20-10 05:15 PM - Post#117002
In response to blast
Blast:
It is my opinion that the leadership of Iran is not insane. Keep in mind that President "Iamadinnerjacket" or whatever his name is, is a figurehead.
Much of the rhetoric coming from Iran is for domestic consumption...like rhetoric coming from North Korea...or even some rhetoric from any national leadership to included the U.S.
Now, do I want Iran to have the bomb? No.
Do we strike them if they are "near" to creating one? Mabey we will, mabey Israel will...but that might be like burning down the barn to get the mosquito.
Like you said, Pakistan has the bomb, and is much more unstable than Iran.
If Israel strikes Iran, it will be as bad for us as if we did it; they will know that we gave overflight rights.
The question is, is if we strike, how much heck will erupt in the Perian Gulf? You can bet a lot!
How would Russia react? How would China react? What would happen to the shipping lines in the Persian Gulf?
Although I do not agree with this line of thinking, from Iran's point of view, they are on the "axis of evil" list. America knocked off Saddam and believe they may be next. From their point of view, how do you preclude an American attack? Get the bomb!
If a state has the bomb, from their way of thinking, the Americans will be deterred from attacking.
America does not attack nations? You say...from the point of view of folks like Iran and North Korea, the Americans have a fine record of attacking nations...Grenada, Panama, strikes on Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan.
Saying the above attacks were justified is our point of view...the Iranians, N. Koreans, etc see it differently.
Further, they know that if they use a nuke, we will turn their nation into molten glass.
On the other hand, is it in our interest to have a nuclear armed Iran?
Interesting and dangerous situation.
My thoughts anyway.
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Jimi Ray Clapton
enthusiast
Posts: 1974
Reg: 09-03-07
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08-20-10 05:15 PM - Post#117003
In response to blast
What we (meaning the gov. that claims to represent us) *should* do... is force Iran out of the nuclear game by taking real and tangible nuclear non-proliferation and arsenal draw-down steps that *prove* beyond the shadow of any doubt that the most nuclear capable country (not to mention the only country to have used these weapons on human beings) on the planet is dead serious about an eventual but real ban of these weapons of mass destruction.
Yeah... like that's gonna happen.
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Brewer
enthusiast
Posts: 1287
Reg: 06-02-07
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08-20-10 06:16 PM - Post#117006
In response to Aolain
If Israel strikes Iran, it will be as bad for us as if we did it; they will know that we gave overflight rights.
Aolian, What "overflight rights" could the US possibly grant for Israel to strike Iran? Please!!
A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week.
-GEN George S. Patton
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Aolain
enthusiast
Posts: 1194
Reg: 11-13-06
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08-20-10 07:43 PM - Post#117009
In response to Brewer
Brewer:
The U.S. controls the skies over Iraq. To pass through Iraqi airspace is the way "there". For example, during Gulf War I the U.S. denied the Israelis clearance to strike in Iraq.
The route between Israel and Iran passes through American controlled airspace.
Turkey would not let them fly through, nor would Saudi Arabia. They can avoid Syrian air defense....the route to Iran lies through US controlled airspace.
The American air defense system is not gonna go "golly, look at those 4 supersonic figher aircraft coming into our controlled airspace...oh well, lets get some coffee."
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Brewer
enthusiast
Posts: 1287
Reg: 06-02-07
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08-20-10 07:53 PM - Post#117010
In response to Aolain
Go South at the Red Sea there and take a Left at Yemen and it's gonna be right there below ya.
A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week.
-GEN George S. Patton
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Aolain
enthusiast
Posts: 1194
Reg: 11-13-06
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08-20-10 08:00 PM - Post#117011
In response to Brewer
Long way for Israels short range aircraft...and who controls the airspace throughout the Persian Gulf?
The strike aircraft could not get in there without the US allowing it.
It is well-known that Israel would not strike unless given a "wink and a nod" from the US.
Whatever the case, they would have to pass through US controlled airspace.
You do not have to believe me, of course.
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Brewer
enthusiast
Posts: 1287
Reg: 06-02-07
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08-20-10 09:54 PM - Post#117017
In response to Aolain
If a strike is deemed necessary to insure the long term viability of Israel then a strike will occur.
A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week.
-GEN George S. Patton
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Aolain
enthusiast
Posts: 1194
Reg: 11-13-06
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08-20-10 11:09 PM - Post#117020
In response to Brewer
Oh yeah...no doubt about that.
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civicminded
Community Guide
Posts: 9252
Loc: Lone Star State
Reg: 04-24-02
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08-21-10 07:46 AM - Post#117027
In response to blast
All realize they should be stopped, yet these things get bogged down in geo-political what if stuff. If the comments made earlier this year (Israel) come true, then around the November timeframe we may know what if? After all, remember it was Israel that had to stop Iraq from the same thing, when they bombed Iraq and France.
It's all a sobering thing to ponder but important to take seriously. Those thinking of chatting again with their enemy are merely playing the game as the enemy wishes it.
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Maurice
Community Expert
Posts: 3981
Loc: Allen, TX
Reg: 12-03-01
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08-21-10 09:57 AM - Post#117032
In response to civicminded
I think at this point, the only thing that will wake some people up to the evil intentions of these animals will be when they use one of those weapons and wipe out a hundred thousand people or so. Then again, that would probably cause them to scream more for us to play nice and give in.
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rtinallentx
enthusiast
Posts: 371
Loc: Allen, TX, USA
Reg: 04-08-03
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08-21-10 01:54 PM - Post#117048
In response to Maurice
Just for discussion, here is an interesting although highly unlike scenario based on Sunni/Shi'a conflict.
* Sunni dominated countries (primarily Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and Egypt) fear a nuclear armed Iran's ability to shift the balance of power from Sunni to Shi'a in the Muslim world.
* Through their intelegence services, Israel, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and Egypt develop a plan where by the Israeli Air Force launches a "maximum effort" "suicide mission" that catches the Jordanian and Saudi defenses off guard and is able to "fight" its way through Jordanian and Saudi air space unscathed.
* The IAF planes complete their missions over Iran.
* Israel is unable to send in reinforcements to defend their returning planes (which are low on both fuel and ammo) as all remaining planes have to be held back to defend against possible attacks from Egyptian and Jordanian planes that have been scrambled.
* Now thoroughly prepared, the Saudi Air Force "shoots down" all the remaining Israeli planes in a running dog fight across northern Saudi Arabia.
* The Israeli pilots are later exchanged on an exaggerated basis for political prisoners held by Isreal.
Thoughts?
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rtinallentx
enthusiast
Posts: 371
Loc: Allen, TX, USA
Reg: 04-08-03
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08-21-10 02:03 PM - Post#117049
In response to blast
I don't believe Iran would be stupid enough to go down the road of attacking anyone with a nuclear weapon...
I suspect that you are correct, but what I do think they would do is supply islamic terrorists with dirty bombs.
I don't think nuclear Iran is any less dangerous than nuclear Pakistan or Russia for that matter.
Iran is infinitely more dangerous than Pakistan or Russia as neiter of these countries are controlled by religous ideologues. At least not yet in Pakistan's case.
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Aolain
enthusiast
Posts: 1194
Reg: 11-13-06
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08-21-10 03:19 PM - Post#117052
In response to rtinallentx
I do not think that if the Israeli Air Force over flew Jordan the Jordanian AF would do much of anything.
Jordan is about as moderate as you can get, and the government hates the terrorists; Jordan massacred and threw out Arafats bunch in the 1970s.
Syria, too, is a secular state, and just might "be slow" on getting aircraft up. Whatever the case, I doubt if Jordanian or Syrian air defense would be up to the task of shooting down Israeli strike aircraft flying at high levels.
No need to over fly Saudi Arabia, and they have American supplied air defense systems.
The trick will be flying through American controlled airspace. If they fly through it, it will be defacto American approval of the strike.
Iran is Shiite, the rest of the Muslim world is Sunni (although Iraq is majority Shiia). Al Quaeda hates the Iranian regime more than they hate the governments of Joran, Syria, and Egypt.
As you mention, the Sunni states have no interest at all of a nuclear armed Iran.
Now, one should never discount what is going on "behind the scenes." For example, Saudi Arabia might publicaly decry a strike...but privately have given the green light.
I personally do not think that the Arab governments would cry too many tears if Iran was given a bloody nose. This does not mean that Iran would not raise holy heck in the Persian Gulf if we hit them.
Edited by Aolain on 08-21-10 03:21 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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