Yep, DU is nasty stuff for sure and it's sad that anyone has to suffer the effects, if they are indeed true. Just as it's sad that the rescue workers have suffered the effects of 9/11.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/06/nyregion/0 6healt...

Yes, because we know it's always our fault at least in some peoples eyes. We didn't fail the 9/11 rescue workers, they went in to try to save lives that were snuffed out by a punk, sneak attack by cowardly terrorists, if you might have missed that.

Chico,
My birthday was this month and the one gift I really wanted wanted was for you to say something positive about our country and our town. I keep thinking that at some point you going to admit how lucky we are to have both.

• mgrayar Said:

Where's allen when you need him? One to many wanted and are is missing!

Chico,
My birthday was this month and the one gift I really wanted wanted was for you to say something positive about our country and our town. I keep thinking that at some point you going to admit how lucky we are to have both.

Grass is always greener, I get it. I hope you achieve your goal of happiness in Belize/Equador. It would be tough for America to ever be what you are looking for. Countries that have no responsibility beyond their borders are booming.

• mgrayar Said:

You may find this difficult to believe considering you find nothing wrong with endless war, hate, prejudice and all those other topics so much a part of this landscape, but there is greener grass out there. The material possessions, the need for continuous war victory simply to display our force and all the things that have become uniquely American wear down one's soul. So yes, greened pastures do exist if you can break yourself of the mind*#c* we live under.

Back to the topic, you of all people, it seems would understand the plight of parents with children having extensive medical needs. If you discovered today that Allen drinking water had a poison needlessly added that caused cystic fibrosis, would you stand up? Would you stand up it was your neighbors kid? How about for kids in McKinney? We've done worse in our path of destruction throughout the Middle East and elsewhere, yet it stirs little response back here. I don't blame the soldiers on the ground, they follow orders. It's US policy I question. When we begin seeing more children as those in the pictures ending up in our hospitals, perhaps you will give a damn, then again, I'm not holding my breath.

But, would you be pushing the cystic fibrosis issue if your daughter didn't have it? Probably not. If I recall correctly, you once told me to do the same.

But, would you be pushing the cystic fibrosis issue if your daughter didn't have it? Probably not. If I recall correctly, you once posted something similar to me when you didn't agree with one of my posts. Seems as if you are always eating out at different (sometimes expensive places), couldn't you donate some of that money to CF instead? If you were serious about it, you would.

Isn't that what you are doing to him?

• vm7mm Said:

I posted my reply before you completly edited your comment and changed its entire meaning. Your edited comment has no relevance. I am not the one trying to tell others they do too little. If I were, then I would need to justify what I do. Chico is claiming that we (you included) have no concern for kids being hurt. He makes this claim as he is shopping for homes in a tropical paradise. My only point is, lead by example.

• mgrayar Said:

Seems to me you are telling him he does to little by posting this:
(quote) Rather than passing judgment, how about you sign up and help. You can find out how by clicking on the link below. Maybe you can find some time in between your searchs for real estate in paradise.

Translation please!

I think Chico is talking more about the Government doing something about this situation more so than you and I. It is not something that existed as a disease, it was caused.

Here is a question:

If (that is IF) the DU rounds do indeed leave radioactive contamination where they hit and the uranium round pulverizes...

And if this contamination is killing/injuring people, particularly children now and in years to come..

And given our government is using these rounds (controversial since they were first introduced in the 1980s) knowing, or at least suspecting that they are leaving contamination...

And given that our government is using this weapon in our name...

And given we support the government and its use of these rounds...

Do we, as individuals, bear a moral burden for this action? A moral burden for the illness and death that results?

Or, are we absolved of all moral responsibility?

Interesting question.

• Aolain Said:

That's a lot of if's, but if all of them are true then yes all of us (from Nancy Pelosi to Sarah Palin, Glen Beck to Reverend Sharpton, Missing Chico to Maurice, me and you) bear the moral burden for the sickness and death the DU ammunition is causing.

It was not a knee jerk reaction to go into Iraq. Was it wise, based on the intel at the time it appeared to be. As for Bin Laden, I have a major problem with that dirtbag still breathing and will be happy when he's taken down.

Yes, we Americans care little about everyone in the world because we're the ultimate evil and Bush is the cause for all the ills in the world and Obama is the answer to everything. If you hate it here that bad and it's so much better in other countries, I'm very surprised that you're still residing here. That's very Alec Baldwin of you.

We ALL bear responsibility for this travesty.

• MissingChico Said:

Is there really a travesty? For a long time, there have been people making claims about DU as well as people claiming to have debunked this. I've been hoping to see discussion about reality of this situation. I listened to one of the videos, but it only claimed an increase in cancer rates in a region. I didn't really hear direct proof that DU was what caused it. Maybe I missed that.

Studies indicating negligible effects

Studies in 2005 and earlier have concluded that DU ammunition has no measurable detrimental health effects.

A 1999 literature review conducted by the Rand Corporation stated: "No evidence is documented in the literature of cancer or any other negative health effect related to the radiation received from exposure to depleted or natural uranium, whether inhaled or ingested, even at very high doses,"[104] and a RAND report authored by the U.S. Defense department undersecretary charged with evaluating DU hazards considered the debate to be more political than scientific.[105]

A 2001 oncology study concluded that "the present scientific consensus is that DU exposure to humans, in locations where DU ammunition was deployed, is very unlikely to give rise to cancer induction".[106] Former NATO Secretary General Lord Robertson stated in 2001 that "the existing medical consensus is clear. The hazard from depleted uranium is both very limited, and limited to very specific circumstances".[107]

A 2002 study from the Australian defense ministry concluded that “there has been no established increase in mortality or morbidity in workers exposed to uranium in uranium processing industries... studies of Gulf War veterans show that, in those who have retained fragments of depleted uranium following combat related injury, it has been possible to detect elevated urinary uranium levels, but no kidney toxicity or other adverse health effects related to depleted uranium after a decade of follow-up.”[108] Pier Roberto Danesi, then-director of the IAEA Seibersdorf +Laboratory, stated in 2002 that "There is a consensus now that DU does not represent a health threat".[109]

The International Atomic Energy Agency reported in 2003 that, "based on credible scientific evidence, there is no proven link between DU exposure and increases in human cancers or other significant health or environmental impacts," although "Like other heavy metals, DU is potentially poisonous. In sufficient amounts, if DU is ingested or inhaled it can be harmful because of its chemical toxicity. High concentration could cause kidney damage." The IAEA concluded that while depleted uranium is a potential carcinogen, there is no evidence that it has been carcinogenic in humans.[110]

A 2005 study by Sandia National Laboratories’ Al Marshall used mathematical models to analyze potential health effects associated with accidental exposure to depleted uranium during the 1991 Gulf War. Marshall’s study concluded that the reports of cancer risks from DU exposure are not supported by veteran medical statistics, but Marshall did not consider reproductive health effects.[111]

It's easy to find links supporting either side. I seem to recall that the WHO (listed in your last link) reported that it wasn't a big deal.

For what it's worth, here are some studies that claim that it's not a big deal:
Wikipedia quote with links here:

• Quote:

It's easy to find links supporting either side. I seem to recall that the WHO (listed in your last link) reported that it wasn't a big deal.

For what it's worth, here are some studies that claim that it's not a big deal:
Wikipedia quote with links here:

• Quote:

Why would mgrayar say that you know nothing about him(I assume he is a he)? He posts here and says a lot. I feel like I know quite a bit about him. It just seems odd that he would accuse you of "pretending" to know something about him given that there's a lot to learn from what someone says day after day in a forum like this.

Anyhoozle... did you know that Stevie Ray Vaughan died 20 years ago this week? Well, if ya didn't.... now ya do.

RIP, namaste. ; - )

Chico Said:
You may find this difficult to believe considering you find nothing wrong with endless war, hate, prejudice and all those other topics so much a part of this landscape, but there is greener grass out there. The material possessions, the need for continuous war victory simply to display our force and all the things that have become uniquely American wear down one's soul. So yes, greened pastures do exist if you can break yourself of the mind*#c* we live under.

Back to the topic, you of all people, it seems would understand the plight of parents with children having extensive medical needs. If you discovered today that Allen drinking water had a poison needlessly added that caused cystic fibrosis, would you stand up? Would you stand up it was your neighbors kid? How about for kids in McKinney? We've done worse in our path of destruction throughout the Middle East and elsewhere, yet it stirs little response back here. I don't blame the soldiers on the ground, they follow orders. It's US policy I question. When we begin seeing more children as those in the pictures ending up in our hospitals, perhaps you will give a damn, then again, I'm not holding my breath.

Not to jump into this.

Let us all drop the "personal" stuff.

Let us get back to flaming Maurice!


bwaahhaahahahahhahh

Seriously guys.

Let us all take a deep breath...back off...swallow our pride and get back to business.

We've heard all the same about Agent Orange, Gulf War Syndrome and others in the past. There's an orchestrated disinformation effort until it is ultimately proven wrong (every time). We already know vets are affected and when you look at the WHO figures on the 1000's times more incidents of cancers and disfiguring fetal disorders, the truth will eventually become common knowledge.

Not to jump into this.

Let us all drop the "personal" stuff.

Let us get back to flaming Maurice!


bwaahhaahahahahhahh

• Maurice Said:

You're partially correct here, the Iraq invasion was planned well before 9/11. There was nothing wise in destabilizing the region unless the mission was to prompt an never ending war.

Back on track, we're using DU tipped weapons intended to pierce tanks and ships against old toyota pick-up trucks filled with rebels. We're leaving the same legacy behind that was left in Kosavo. When or if I decide to reside outside this country will be my decision and if I feel better about supporting a country with an informed public that would protest the hell out of their government for doing what this country has done, that again is my decision. There are happier places on earth.

• Jimi Ray Clapton Said:

Jimi, I guess you missed the post for which I was referring. Below is the quote that proves to me that Chico does not know anything about my character. Since you say you know a lot about me from my posts, would you agree with Chico's comments?

• Quote:

Chico knows nothing about me if he feels his comments represent my character and beliefs in any way. And as of yet, he is a coward that has not responded to defend his accusations.

• mgrayar Said:

Coward? Careful buddy. Who on this board tends to take on the unpopular topic, the topic that fends for the little guy, the little country, the poor and underrepresented? It certainly isn't you. I'm not going to continuously blow USA sunshine up the behinds of everyone on this board as well as my friends around the world. If I find something good, I comment on it on boards where the topics are discussed with open minds, this is not such a board. I could say the sky was blue and you'd pick at punctuation, semantics, and anything else but the actual topic. Like I've said in the past, you're rather adept at pecking the white out of the chicken @#$t.
As for the personal stuff, while you were busy pecking, you missed the fact that I simply attempted to personalize the subject for you. Bases solely on your comments alone, you offer little empathy to a family having grotesquely deformed kids when that family is not American and even less empathy if they're W's proclaimed enemy. My allegiance is a bit broader than the typical Texan in that I view the entire world population equally. When my country does wrong, I feel for the victim. Karma is a #$%^& and eventually the world will have it's fill of this country and it's heavy hand. I hope my karma is good when that happens. Although I do not blindly follow the principles, I think I'll walk in the path I believe Christ would in this situation. If you believe he cares more for our little plot of land on this earth more than any other, you've become so completely diluted like far too many in this country and that I cannot support.

• MissingChico Said:

So this time, instead of twisting the truth to your favor, you decide to just flat out lie. Honorable of you! I did not comment on the children in your article. I actually agree with most of the logical posts on here. Your personal attacks are unwarranted and unnecessary. That is my only complaint with your posts....typically. You do a good job of finding discussion topics, but cannot resist getting nasty to those who do not share your views. Saying that I am filled with hate and prejudice COWARDICE at best.