Aolain
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Reg: 11-13-06
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08-10-11 08:56 AM - Post#136294
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2024203/U K...
Tough business in the UK. One can understand what happened in Katrina...or in LA after the Rodney KIng/cop verdict...not condone, but understand those isolated disorders.
The disorders in the UK are not isolated, but popping up all over the nation for no apparent reason other than to loot.
Five have been killed as of this time in the rioting. Interestingly, some immigrant communities (I know, I know, those immigrants!) are banding together to protect their neighborhood from the thugs.
Reading citizen comments in The Times, Guardian, etc, it sounds like the good folk of the UK have had enough of this and want the government to take strong action.
Not sure if the British government has the belly to take that strong action if these things continue.
Might be time to bring in a couple of thousand rural cops from East Texas, Oklahoma, Mississippi, and Alabama. I imagine those old boys would know what to do with these punks.
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civicminded
Community Guide
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Loc: Lone Star State
Reg: 04-24-02
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08-10-11 11:45 AM - Post#136308
In response to Aolain
Katrina? Los Angeles? No they're more similar to the UK than not. Greece, Egypt, Syria, and some others are about real problems I think. But the New Orleans, CA, and UK examples are more about idiots that are more interested in anarchy and opportunity to profit.
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Aolain
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Reg: 11-13-06
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08-10-11 12:59 PM - Post#136314
In response to civicminded
Civic:
Indeed, I agree completely, but Kartina and LA can be understood.
In Katrina there was a complete collapse of civil government coupled with hunger and thirst along with the police force being scattered. One can understand thugs, as well as normal people, looting in those circumstances.
In LA there was the King beating followed by the cops being aquitted. Right or wrong, I can see a certain community getting upset about that.
Still, with both LA and Katrina, you did not see copy cat riots occuring, say, in Dallas or Allen. In the UK riots, it is as if there was a police shooting in Memphis, and the teens of Allen began to loot and burn Allen down.
With the current UK problems, there was a police shooting and that sparked one disorder; followed by copy cat disorders across the nation by people who had probably never heard of the shooting.
That is what makes it remarkable. Further, in the UK one sees kids as young as 9 and 10 out looting...lots of them. Further, the UK riots, as best I can tell, are being caused by all manner of racial groups, not just one. The major unifying factor seems to be young people, though some older folks have joined in.
It is like LA and Katrina (to a degree) in that people are going after booze, electronics, and clothing. Interestingly, some police stations have been fire bombed. It is hard to imagine LA thugs, for example, fire bombling a police station without running into a hail of gunfire.
And to make matters worse, at this time 44 police have been injured. I have read that the Brit cops are not pleased at not being allowed to do what must be done to restore order.
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carygold
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Posts: 4959
Reg: 05-30-08
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08-10-11 01:07 PM - Post#136316
In response to Aolain
just to add a little contrast
The Japan earthquake... no looting.
If CEO's increased their pay at the same rate as Average Americans
their pay would average $1,384,890 not $10,621,000 |
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Aolain
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Posts: 1194
Reg: 11-13-06
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08-10-11 01:24 PM - Post#136317
In response to carygold
Cary:
A remarkably good point.
On a more positive note (is this really positive????), a British Army infantry battalion has been alerted for possible use if the police cannot regain control of the cities.
If this was one city, oh well. But it is nation-wide; with the exception of Wales and Scotland-- go figure the Scots are not joining in. The government has got to end this and end it quick.
As a good liberal and I know Maurice is with me on this one: I agree with Napoleon: A little "whif of the Grape" is a wonderful motivational tool to take the vinegar out of rioters such as these.
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Maurice
Community Expert
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Loc: Allen, TX
Reg: 12-03-01
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08-10-11 01:31 PM - Post#136318
In response to Aolain
In this case, yes a whif of the grape would be due. This is not a revolt or uprising just animals looting for the sake of looting.
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Allenite
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Loc: Allen, TX, USA
Reg: 06-18-01
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08-10-11 01:37 PM - Post#136319
In response to Aolain
Or maybe the Texas Rangers. One Riot, One Ranger!
Edited by Allenite on 08-10-11 01:37 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Aolain
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Reg: 11-13-06
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08-10-11 01:54 PM - Post#136321
In response to Maurice
Yep.
Simple enough. Establish a curfew. Impose the Riot Act, shoot looters on sight. Regardless of age or gender....the hole in my little scheme here is that the Riot Act was repealed in 1973 and rioting is not longer a capital offence in the UK.
If this were ideological, if these were starving people, or if there was some political goal they were after, well, then, perhaps not the heavy hand. But as Maurice notes, they are simply animals looting for the sake of looting.
Shoot one or two, and this is all gonna end in about 2 minutes.
Could you imagine the outcry if Allen teens were running around the town looting and burning buildings and the Allen PD did not get control, and get control quick? I can only imagine how the law abiding folk of the UK feel as they watch this.
And Allenite: I do not think the Texas Rangers have brutal enough of a reputaion; too professional.
What the UK needs is about 1000 swag-bellied, tabbaca chawin cops from the back woods. I think you would see some justice in the streets! lol
Edited by Aolain on 08-10-11 01:58 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Al C
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Loc: McKinney/Allen, TX
Reg: 02-16-01
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08-10-11 02:23 PM - Post#136327
In response to carygold
just to add a little contrast
The Japan earthquake... no looting.
And FWIW (not directed at you, Cary) ... no, I can NOT understand the LA riots. Yes, the cops were acquitted, but that's no reason to go absolutely crazy and beat, rob, darn near kill everyone in sight. Does the name Reginald Denny ring a bell?
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Al C
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Loc: McKinney/Allen, TX
Reg: 02-16-01
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08-10-11 02:25 PM - Post#136328
In response to Aolain
And Allenite: I do not think the Texas Rangers have brutal enough of a reputaion; too professional.
That does not fit the one I had a "run in" with down in Austin some years ago. The guy was a total jerk hiding behind that badge and gun.
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Aolain
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Posts: 1194
Reg: 11-13-06
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08-10-11 02:49 PM - Post#136331
In response to Al C
Here is the opinion of one Scotsman. He served as a paratrooper in the French Foreigh Legion in the 1980s and lives in Scotland today. It is from a private forum, so I have cut and pasted: I have only edited for language and added paragraphs....I tend to think this fellow had a few brews down his gob when he wrote this, but an interesting view from the UK nonethless.
"The way I see it is this, the fuse at the epicenter was the shooting of that dippy [censored] waving his weapon about and was shot for it. The following nights of trouble were from bored youths who heard about the shops being looted and decided to invite likeminded bored youth to 'come on down' and join in the fray and it's spiralled out of control. Via twitter and facebook.
The second night was worse that the first as the 'watchers' seen, on the news, all these looting scum getting away with it and no real police reaction so though "oh I need a new fone or some new trainers" and went down mob handed to where the gangs were congregating. One youth does, others follow and it's like a domino effect, the police were outnumbered at the time so couldn't be everywhere at once hence the [censored] thought whoopee, this is great, a free shopping spree.
Alas the initial reason was forgotten and all hell broke loose. There were obviously a few overseas visitors getting in amongst it but the majority were young, bored british youths.
Now, the question for this is, why do they feel they have to do this, ill tell it the way i see it. The age range from 13-19, not very educated, are many. They dont really have any future to look ahead, they are kinda forgotten, they cant get work, they get no benefits, they are our wasted youth, the forgotten ones. So what can we do about this.
I say bring back national service for those that cannot be bothered to learn in school and make sure the other option to this is more harsh, make life hard for them so as the begin to learn that respect they once had but have lost because our gov has cut back on teaching, cut back on community spending ie community centres withing housing estates and other social structures.
I dont condone what these looters do, it was abysmall what they have done so the question is, how do we move forward. The guilty [censored] must be punished, hahahaha, punished my [censored]. But in what way, we have to [censored] this human rights [censored] right out the window and make them suffer, open up hard labour camps like the old borstals or dc's BUT< if they dont work or conform, they dont eat, or they just get the basic bread and water and no visits or comms with the outside world. That'll teach the [censored].
I tell you what I enjoyed on the news this morning, the way the sikh community got together to protect thier places of worship and that other white community blocked all entrances to thier estate to stop the scum from entering.
Its been a bad few days for england, but its brought people together in a kind of way that we have lacked for years, no disrespect to the police as they have been shafted by the gov like the forces have but they couldn't cope, so in certain areas the people protected themselves, sad about them 3 pakis killed by a hit and run driver, like someone else said above, in times like these you do get the extremists coming out to add thier [censored] to the fire. I think we the people will learn from this, oh and [censored] the gov."
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Maurice
Community Expert
Posts: 3981
Loc: Allen, TX
Reg: 12-03-01
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08-10-11 03:46 PM - Post#136336
In response to Aolain
Yep, some skulls need a crackin' to get this under control.
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civicminded
Community Guide
Posts: 9254
Loc: Lone Star State
Reg: 04-24-02
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08-10-11 04:47 PM - Post#136341
In response to Maurice
Yep, some skulls need a crackin' to get this under control.
That's it. These jawas are looting and rioting because they can, and not because they have a Cause. In the UK right now like early in South Central, the police are holding back. In that vaccum the lawlessness is either rampant or getting a camera enough to make us think it's bad all over. Likely the wannabee actors in other townships are watching to see if they're gonna bust some heads. I'm sympathetic to the thin blue line of Law Enforcement like in my own profession. If a quick reaction ins't employed then the opportunity is lost until a greater force can be assembled. I think that's what we have here, like in South Central or New Orleans. This is not about people scrounging for life saving food and supplies which we would agree with and do ourselves...this is about what I always call jawas. Jawas are only cute in Star Wars, not when they're destroying society and spreading fear from their idiot speak. They need this quickly:  
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Aolain
enthusiast
Posts: 1194
Reg: 11-13-06
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08-10-11 05:32 PM - Post#136348
In response to Maurice
Durn Tootin', Maurice, and notice that I did not tell folks you authored that post!
Here is a VERY interesting analysis of the situation by Historian Max Hastings. Some of you may have read some of his stuff.
He lays the cards out about the situation in Britain...I think it is important because once "it" hits Britain, it always makes its way over here.
Please keep in mind that in the UK "Liberal" and "conservative" have very different meanings.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2024284 /...
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carygold
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Posts: 4959
Reg: 05-30-08
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08-11-11 12:39 PM - Post#136378
In response to Aolain
I don't think rioting and looting is ever justified. However, riots are a symptom of some underlying problem. How we feel about the riots always depends on which side we are on.
If destruction of private property is throwing TEA into the Boston harbor and its your TEA, you might want some heads cracked. If its in protest of the Kings over reaching policies you might think it was justified. Either way the actions were a symptom of an underlying issue.
NO, I am not comparing the Boston TEA Party, to the burning and looting of English towns and cities. I'm just saying something is driving these actions.
If CEO's increased their pay at the same rate as Average Americans
their pay would average $1,384,890 not $10,621,000 |
Edited by carygold on 08-11-11 12:40 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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carygold
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Posts: 4959
Reg: 05-30-08
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08-11-11 01:26 PM - Post#136382
In response to Aolain
.....
Here is a VERY interesting analysis of the situation by Historian Max Hastings. Some of you may have read some of his stuff.
He lays the cards out about the situation in Britain...I think it is important because once "it" hits Britain, it always makes its way over here.
..........
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2024284 /...
Ple-e-e-ease.... the daily mail is an English Tabloid owned by Rupert Murdoch...they have as many slander law suits as they do web pages.
This online rag throws liberalism and chemical imbalance into the mix to explain away the riots as if these people a little more than lab experiments that got loose.
The idea is to say if you had grown up here, you would not act as they do, because these people have brain issues...REALLY THAT'S LAYING CARDS ON THE TABLE..??????
Do rioters, pictured looting a shop in Hackney, have lower levels of a brain chemical that helps keep behaviour under control? Scientists think so.
What dribble...or how about this sentence?
So there we have it: a large, amoral, brutalised sub-culture of young British people who lack education because they have no will to learn, and skills which might make them employable.
To sweep human beings under the rug with generalized statements like "no will to learn," "amoral youth" is immoral in itself. It assumes the author, MAX HASTINGS, would never make the same life choices given the same situation.
This man is not much of a historian, he knows nothing of the culture of poverty.
If CEO's increased their pay at the same rate as Average Americans
their pay would average $1,384,890 not $10,621,000 |
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Aolain
enthusiast
Posts: 1194
Reg: 11-13-06
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08-11-11 03:53 PM - Post#136395
In response to carygold
Cary:
Indeed, Murdoch owns it (what does not that rat own?). Still, Murdoch did not write the piece: you know how aggrivated you get when you link a good, factual analysis of an issue and the conservatives lambast the link because, say, "it was on the Huffington post!!"
I agree Hastings was hard hitting, perhaps too over the top, but he did, as I mentioned, lay his cards on the table.
Hastings is a fairly good popular military historian; not an academic historian. Still, he does have an analysis of the situation that is interesting.
One does not have to agree with Hastings, but it is one perspective of what happend in England.
And even if Hastings is "wrong" one should give the guy a break. He has just watched his own nation seemingly fall apart as young thugs ran riot and the forces of civilized society seemed unable to stop them, if only for a short time.
Edited by Aolain on 08-11-11 03:58 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Maurice
Community Expert
Posts: 3981
Loc: Allen, TX
Reg: 12-03-01
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08-11-11 04:48 PM - Post#136410
In response to Aolain
What do you expect from people you give handouts to and don't imbue them with a sense of responsibility and duty to give back. Entitlement mentality at its best, or worst, same thing really.
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Triumph
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Posts: 36
Loc: Fairview
Reg: 03-09-03
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08-11-11 05:09 PM - Post#136415
In response to carygold
Murdoch doesn't own the Daily Mail. He owns the Sun, the Times and The Sunday Times in the UK. The Daily Mail is owned by Associated Newspapers.
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Aolain
enthusiast
Posts: 1194
Reg: 11-13-06
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08-11-11 05:22 PM - Post#136419
In response to Triumph
There is something wrong with Murdoch owining The Times. News of the World, sure, Fox News, gottcha, but it just aint right he owns the Times of London.
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