carygold
enthusiast
Posts: 4972
Reg: 05-30-08
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08-22-11 08:32 AM - Post#137212
In response to MissingChico
There is an old book call Psycho-Cybernetics, written by a plastic surgeon, about the psychological positive results of plastic surgery.
The point of view of the child who will now have nice teeth and no longer look at a smile that screams poverty seams to be its own reward. We cannot measure the self confidence and possible long term changes in this persons life.
I think when the government, possibly the largest single purchaser of prescription drugs, does ask for prescription drugs to be discounted just for the volume that the government will purchase, we are being dumb.
There should be similar discounts for any procedure, there should be lower reimbursements for medical procedures under medicare/medicaid, or a fixed price that is below market rates. If the medical practitioner can show a loss due to these prices let them, Medicare is only a portion of any practice. We cannot control costs if the largest purchaser of health care and drugs is not asking for discounts up front.
If CEO's increased their pay at the same rate as Average Americans
their pay would average $1,384,890 not $10,621,000 |
Edited by carygold on 08-22-11 08:33 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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mgrayar
enthusiast
Posts: 3165
Reg: 09-25-09
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08-22-11 09:07 AM - Post#137219
In response to carygold
Although it seems like the compassionate thing to do, I don't think the US Government should be in the "self-esteem" building business.
There are plenty of procedures that could fall under the idea of improving self-esteem, but are not medically necessary. This is a fairly slippery slope. I would tend to think that Tax Payer healthcare should be limited to medically necessary procedures. You open the door to fraud, as in the orthodontics example, when you try to walk a very thin line of what will improve self-esteem.
On another note, there are charities that specialize in this type of work. They are much better at assessing need and priority.
Learn more about Cystic Fibrosis and how you can help at:
http://www.cff.org
Everyone can make a difference! |
Edited by mgrayar on 08-22-11 09:09 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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MissingChico
enthusiast
Posts: 2228
Reg: 02-13-06
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08-22-11 11:31 AM - Post#137238
In response to mgrayar
Although it seems like the compassionate thing to do, I don't think the US Government should be in the "self-esteem" building business.
There are plenty of procedures that could fall under the idea of improving self-esteem, but are not medically necessary. This is a fairly slippery slope. I would tend to think that Tax Payer healthcare should be limited to medically necessary procedures. You open the door to fraud, as in the orthodontics example, when you try to walk a very thin line of what will improve self-esteem.
On another note, there are charities that specialize in this type of work. They are much better at assessing need and priority.
We could make braces affordable by giving a child and a parent round tickets to Merida Mexico, Mumbai India or Bangkok Thailand for the procedure. The trip and braces would cost a quarter the amount we're charged here.
| I get my news from the Comedy Central and my comedy from Fox News. |
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Jimi Ray Clapton
enthusiast
Posts: 1977
Reg: 09-03-07
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08-22-11 12:07 PM - Post#137242
In response to MissingChico
Industry slogan:
"U.S. Privatized Health Care: Twice the price, with the same results"
| I reserve the right to change who I am, my opinions, my views and my actions based on new and more accurate information that I receive. |
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carygold
enthusiast
Posts: 4972
Reg: 05-30-08
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08-22-11 12:49 PM - Post#137247
In response to mgrayar
Obviously, one incident or result does not mean that it is representative of an entire program whether that result is positive or negative.
Of course if we could end poverty with braces there would be a nation wide private and public push to get that done. But then again we don't know about the positive effects it may have on a child either, to go on to college or build a business, for example.
This whole idea that anything the government does only serves to rip off the tax payer is getting old. We only hear of the negative results and assume that this is the norm, because the media knows what sells.
I don't know if Navarro is legal or just a rip off, but it appears that roughly 36,800 kids have received braces in Texas for about $184 million dollars. That's 16% of what we have spent bombing Libya so far.
That a good deal to me.
If CEO's increased their pay at the same rate as Average Americans
their pay would average $1,384,890 not $10,621,000 |
Edited by carygold on 08-22-11 12:50 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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mgrayar
enthusiast
Posts: 3165
Reg: 09-25-09
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08-22-11 01:18 PM - Post#137248
In response to carygold
At least you are all consistent. The fact of the matter is resources are limited. Covering medically necessary procedures is correct and justifiable. Cosmetic procedures, for solely cosmetic improvement is not a responsible use of tax payer money. Medicaid was not created as a bank account to fund elective procedures for "self-esteem". What's next...nose jobs for non-medical reasons, breast implants for insecure 23 year olds (non mastectomy reasons)? How about vaginal rejuvenation (it's all the rage right now)? What about buttock implants for those without junk in their trunk? That has to lower self-esteem.
I know it is silly to suggest all this, but braces in many cases are just as cosmetic. Now there are medically necessary reasons for almost any of these procedures, and Medicaid covering the medically necessary procedures is 100% justifiable. The same cannot be said for those that are not medically necessary.
Learn more about Cystic Fibrosis and how you can help at:
http://www.cff.org
Everyone can make a difference! |
Edited by mgrayar on 08-22-11 01:19 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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lostyankee
enthusiast
Posts: 1263
Reg: 10-27-05
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08-22-11 03:33 PM - Post#137282
In response to mgrayar
I'm really surprise at how oblivious some are here to what appears to be blatant fraud. I don't dispute that braces make someone feel better about themselves, but what's next? Boob jobs? Face lifts?
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sco
enthusiast
Posts: 2671
Loc: allen,TX USA
Reg: 10-26-02
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08-22-11 04:40 PM - Post#137290
In response to lostyankee
While there may have been fraud involved a few things jumped out at me after re-reading the article. First, it appears that coverage of braces was allowed under medicaid rules in Texas at least in certain circumstances. The fraud seems to have come in with the number of procedures and how they were billed. Second, it appears that it was the state of Texas and not the federal government that set the rules and was supposed to be policing them. Personally, once again I find myself in the middle gray area. There are circumstances where I think it would be proper to cover orthodontia under medicaid. Cases where the bite or jaw alignment is affected are legitimate health issues and should be covered. If it is purely for cosmetic reasons then I think it should probably be excluded.
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mgrayar
enthusiast
Posts: 3165
Reg: 09-25-09
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08-22-11 04:58 PM - Post#137294
In response to sco
That is where I stand as well. Medically necessary fine, not, seek help from a charity that specializes in this work. Tax payers cannot afford to be in the self-esteem business.
I think we all knew that Medicaid is state by state, that is why I referred to it as Tax Payer or Goverment HC, but it is good to reiterate that point just in case.
Learn more about Cystic Fibrosis and how you can help at:
http://www.cff.org
Everyone can make a difference! |
Edited by mgrayar on 08-22-11 05:05 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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lostyankee
enthusiast
Posts: 1263
Reg: 10-27-05
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08-22-11 05:47 PM - Post#137303
In response to sco
Exactly my point. I'm just stunned by the lack of outrage by the supporters of government health care on this forum. I'd have expected apoplexy yet hardly a whimper. Here's a rather blatant corporate entity seeming to get away with fraud and I seem to be one of the few that's honked off about it.
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mgrayar
enthusiast
Posts: 3165
Reg: 09-25-09
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08-22-11 07:20 PM - Post#137312
In response to lostyankee
It doesn't fit the agenda yet. When Obama gets back and gives them their talking points, our resident liberals will be all over this. Nothing happens while the boss rests!
Learn more about Cystic Fibrosis and how you can help at:
http://www.cff.org
Everyone can make a difference! |
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carygold
enthusiast
Posts: 4972
Reg: 05-30-08
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08-22-11 10:12 PM - Post#137319
In response to mgrayar
I think the lack of outrage is because the article seems to imply this is the whole of the system, nothing but waste and abuse.
Again, like the Iceland issue that has a happy ending, it is not provocative so it doesn't get reported. The news media is looking for ratings and nice stories rarely go viral. So, they only thing we will here about is the negative issues. How many planes landed today at DFW today without incident? While plane travel is mathematically safer than any other form of transportation, its the crashes that make the news and keep many people from flying.
If CEO's increased their pay at the same rate as Average Americans
their pay would average $1,384,890 not $10,621,000 |
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pup
enthusiast
Posts: 3755
Reg: 03-29-06
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08-23-11 06:54 AM - Post#137329
In response to carygold
We need Libya's health care system.
Under Britain's, the Pan Am/Lockerbie bomber had 3 months max.....released him to Libya and he's flourished for 3 years.
| Pup has left the building. |
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readingu
enthusiast
Posts: 705
Reg: 02-08-04
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09-01-11 06:18 PM - Post#138029
In response to pup
What is the topic?
Medicare or Medicaid?
Medicare is a social insurance program administered by the United States government, providing health insurance coverage to people who are aged 65 and over; to those who are under 65 and are permanently physically disabled or who have a congenital physical disability; or to those who meet other special criteria. Medicare in the United States somewhat resembles a single-payer health care system, but is not. Before Medicare, only 51% of people aged 65 and older had health care coverage, and nearly 30% lived below the federal poverty level. "Original Medicare" plans (when Medicare Advantage has not been elected) cover 80% of the Medicare-approved amount of any given medical cost; the remaining 20% of cost must be paid by either a Medicare Supplement plan, which is a "supplemental insurance" from a private health insurance company (normally requiring a monthly insurance premium paid to that company by the holder), or out-of-pocket via the patient's own personal funds (check, money order, cash, etc.). Medicare Advantage plans are not Medicare Supplements, but take the place of "Original Medicare". In return for a premium, these plans share costs and cap out of pocket expenses.
Medicaid is the United States health program for certain people and families with low incomes and resources. It is a means-tested program that is jointly funded by the state and federal governments, and is managed by the states.[1] People served by Medicaid are U.S. citizens or legal permanent residents, including low-income adults, their children, and people with certain disabilities. Poverty alone does not necessarily qualify someone for Medicaid. Medicaid is the largest source of funding for medical and health-related services for people with limited income in the United States.
Medicare costs me more that I've attained the threshold age of 65. So what's the beef?
Wait you will see
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pup
enthusiast
Posts: 3755
Reg: 03-29-06
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09-01-11 09:47 PM - Post#138045
In response to readingu
This post has been removed by the Webmaster.
Okay folks,
While the Soap Box allows for a wider latitude of posts and responses the continuing bickering needs to stop. This is causing problems to other members as complaints continue to come in. Below is information on ignoring a member. Please use this if you must, as you must also stop this public spat.
In addition, attempts to circumvent the profanity filter must also cease. Please control yourself and understand after the Soap Box there is no place to go except to have posting privileges revoked.
Let's have a truce now. No responses are needed. Truce please.
Adding users to your 'ignore list.'
To add a user to your 'ignore list': click on their username, then on Manage Ignores. This takes you to a page that lists their user ID/Name and has a space for you to add an Optional Reason to briefly explain why you're ignoring this person. This field is optional, but if many people are ignoring this user with the same reasons, the site administrators will see this and will determine if other actions are needed on their part.
This page also allows you to set the Ignore Level:
• Level 1: Tinted Glass (Placing users behind the 'tinted glass' will prevent them from inviting you to a private topic.)
• Level 2: Wood Crate (Placing users in a 'wood crate' as the same affect as 'tinted glass' plus they will not be able to view your profile.)
• Level 3: Lead Box (Placing highly toxic users in a 'lead box' has the same affect as 'wood crate' plus the user's topics and posts will be hidden from your view. Their names will also not be displayed in the 'online' information.)
You can also remove yourself from any PTs with the person you're ignoring. Uncheck the option Remove you from PT under the Level.
| Pup has left the building. |
Edited by Webmaster on 09-02-11 10:22 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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mgrayar
enthusiast
Posts: 3165
Reg: 09-25-09
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09-02-11 05:53 AM - Post#138068
In response to pup
Very generous :-)
Learn more about Cystic Fibrosis and how you can help at:
http://www.cff.org
Everyone can make a difference! |
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lostyankee
enthusiast
Posts: 1263
Reg: 10-27-05
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09-25-11 08:44 AM - Post#139605
In response to mgrayar
Plot thickens:
http://www.wfaa.com/news/investigates/Did -dentists...
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