chammett
newbie
Posts: 7
Reg: 02-03-11
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03-02-12 04:45 PM - Post#146166
As some of you know, I am a reporter with the Allen American. I am working on a story about the transition this year from TAKS to STAAR for students in grades 3-9. Are there any parents on this forum who might want to talk about their feelings regarding the transition? I am especially interested in talking to parents of high school students, who will be seeing the most changes. You can reach me through this thread or the forum's private message system.
Thank you,
Conner Hammett
Allen American
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Aolain
enthusiast
Posts: 1196
Reg: 11-13-06
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03-02-12 10:11 PM - Post#146174
In response to chammett
I am not a parent, but I had a chance to take the STAAR history test. The one for 11th grade, I think.
Took me about 1 minute to complete it...got 100% without really thinking much about it.
Seemed moronically simple to me. Most embarassing was the document that students had to "analyze." One just had to read the 1st sentence of the document to answer the question.
Not that it is not a jim-dandy, great assessment tool, however.
Edited by Aolain on 03-02-12 10:14 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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amcor
member
Posts: 79
Reg: 08-27-06
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03-03-12 07:16 PM - Post#146190
In response to chammett
STAAR is only being given to the 9th graders. Students in grades 10-12 will finish out with TAKS.
http://www.duncanvilleisd.org/modules/cms/pages.ph...
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optimist
member
Posts: 61
Reg: 08-13-11
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03-04-12 10:27 AM - Post#146198
In response to amcor
It looks like the 'most interesting' story would be how someone was able to take the new STAAR test when school districts themselves have not yet had the opportunity. TEA and Pearson go to great lengths to keep those documents secure.
This reply was to no one in particular.
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scrapmom
member
Posts: 45
Reg: 05-05-10
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03-04-12 01:15 PM - Post#146200
In response to optimist
I was wondering the same thing. They have released a few very easy questions to demonstrate the "look" of the test but no real questions have been seen.
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EnjoyingLife
enthusiast
Posts: 374
Reg: 08-09-10
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03-05-12 12:46 PM - Post#146293
In response to scrapmom
Students these days are over tested! They take simulation after simulation before even taking the real test.
Standardized tests are a total joke!
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Aolain
enthusiast
Posts: 1196
Reg: 11-13-06
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03-05-12 02:43 PM - Post#146299
In response to EnjoyingLife
Enjoying Life:
Yep...."learning" has been replaced with "assessment" that rewards rote memorization--I cannot tell you how many times I have had to sit through "professional development" where some K-12 type regaled us with the newest, trendy, (and completely unproven) education fad.
Not in all school districts, of course.
Unfortunately, universities all across the nation, from "Low Standards Big Box State University" to "Highly Selective Ivy League For the Super Rich College" are grappling with students who cannot think critically, whose writing skills are poor, and do not read anything longer than a tweet, but are heck on wheels when it comes to standardized multiple choice tests.
In my experience, students with a basic understanding of our culture, history, and literature, are not common.
Just some anecdotal examples that probably do not prove anything as they are anecdotal:
--students associating Nazis with World War I.
--In a class of 140 freshment, only one (Jewish) had heard of the SS.
--In general, they have never heard of the Cold War.
--Not understanding that there is a Senate and HOR, and possessing no earthly idea how a bill becomes law.
....I suppose I could go on...
As I understand, however, AISD does seem to do a good job.
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DrivinTooFast
enthusiast
Posts: 1353
Reg: 02-20-08
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03-05-12 04:19 PM - Post#146302
In response to Aolain
The human mind is jello and can be molded to any shape by educators. Over testing has deteriorated the ability to think, discuss and reason.
There is no textbook for the real world.
Don't even try to have a kid make change, it's like watching a train wreck with gerbils running around in their heads. Give them a $5 bill for $3.25 in items and you could power nuclear fusion from the heat coming off their noodle.
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Abby
enthusiast
Posts: 126
Reg: 01-10-03
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03-05-12 04:54 PM - Post#146304
In response to DrivinTooFast
I have a 9th grade student in Allen. She is completely stressed over the test. These test will be included in the overall grade. At least with TAKS, the grades did not impact their GPA grades. She took her first math simulation test and most of the items on the test has not been covered. She disliked TAKS but this is sooooo much worst. The teachers are stress, the kids are stress.
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Dinsdale
member
Posts: 75
Reg: 08-26-06
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03-05-12 08:09 PM - Post#146313
In response to Abby
In AISD, STAAR test scores are not currently, nor will they ever be, calculated into Grade Point Average. GPA is calculated from 2nd-semester averages, not year-end grades. The state education commissioner said in February that districts do not have to calculate STAAR scores into 9th-grade students' year-end averages for tested courses this year, so AISD is not doing that either. Students must pass the EOC for course credit, but their actual score won't be part of their course grade. The state has released very few STAAR questions/ question types, so teachers & department coordinators have to create simulation materials based on their best estimation of how the real EOCs will look. The TEA has only released 14 questions from the History EOC so there is no way that someone could take a full History EOC yet. That particular test isn't due to be phased in until the 2013-2014 school year. STAAR is a much more rigorous program than TAKS. It will be exciting to see how the state sets the passing standard and how the kids do during the first year of implementation. STAAR measures the ability to think critically and analyze, which was not really the focus with TAKS.
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Aolain
enthusiast
Posts: 1196
Reg: 11-13-06
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03-05-12 08:54 PM - Post#146315
In response to Dinsdale
Well, I was able to take a STAAR test--official, with all the logos, etc.
It might have been 14 questions, but I seem to remember it was more...let us say it was 14.
I did not think that it was very rigorous, nor did it, in my opinion, test critical thinking one whit; simple multiple choice questions...nothing sophisticated at all. Certainly waaaaay too simplistic for a university Freshman survey course (and I admit that this standard--as weak as it is--is probably too high for HS testing).
I do not want to get into a pooping contest here; but the test I took was about as simple as could be. In particular, the "critical thinking" examination of the primary document was so simplistic as to be laughable.
Of course, STAAR is designed to evaluate the most basic of skills that a HS grad should possess. And that is not a bad thing.
To be honest, I think that Texas, and certainly other state Boards of Education, are fooling themselves with these standardized tests if they think they test critical thinking.
If these state mandated standardized tests did, indeed, test critical thinking, then universities from here to Harvard would not be scrambling to teach to our incoming Freshmen what they should have come to grips with in HS.
I would point folks to the exellent study "Academically Adrift." It concludes that the "old fashioned" way (what Western Civilization was based on) of reading, and much writing, is the way to teach critical thinking...not simplistic multiple choice test.
Again, I do not want to get into a pooping contest with K-12 pedagogists.
Edited by Aolain on 03-05-12 08:58 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Abby
enthusiast
Posts: 126
Reg: 01-10-03
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03-05-12 10:51 PM - Post#146319
In response to Dinsdale
Thanks for the update!
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 Debbie
enthusiast
Posts: 492
Loc: Allen, TX USA
Reg: 01-24-00
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03-06-12 07:25 AM - Post#146320
In response to Aolain
You're a history teacher. I would hope that you would get 100% and be able to complete the test quickly!
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jogo
enthusiast
Posts: 1321
Reg: 08-31-05
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03-06-12 08:56 AM - Post#146324
In response to Debbie
Aolain is university history professor. Of course a test designed for a high school junior (if that's even the one he took) would be simple for him! He left that bit of information out of his assessment though.
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DAB
enthusiast
Posts: 132
Loc: Allen
Reg: 03-18-05
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03-06-12 09:01 AM - Post#146325
In response to jogo
The current class of Juniors wouldn't take the STAAR test so it would be for a lower grade level.
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Aolain
enthusiast
Posts: 1196
Reg: 11-13-06
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03-06-12 03:06 PM - Post#146347
In response to jogo
Jogo:
Indeed I am. But I am no smarter than a high school student. In my opinion, the vast majority of them are quite capable of sophisticated thought.
My only advantage is experience. I can guarantee you that just about anyone who has the time, money, motivation, and gumption, can get a Pd.D...including the vast majority of HS students.
Of course the test was simple for me, but it would have been too simple of an assessment veicle for my Freshmen...and these HS students are not far removed from that level.
One of my former students is a HS history teacher, and he agrees that the test (as presented to us, it may be different in actual application) is much too easy.
On the other hand, the STAAR is NOT a college entrance exam. It is to test a very basic level of learning. From that perspective, it probably will do a good job.
Ultimately, I just think that we do not give HS students enough credit for what they can do when properly motivated (motivated is the key word, and public school teachers hands are tied, I think, when it comes to being able to motivate).
With that said, I think we are fooling ourselves if we really believe that the STAAR is some kind of panacea that will bring the light of "critical thinking" to our secondary classrooms...Socrates never gave a multiple choice test; Jefferson never took a multiple choice test.
The question is, is do we as a nation have the willingness and ability to actually educate young people so that the U.S. can maintain its strategic dominance?
Or, do we shoot for mediocraty and become a 2nd rate power?
I can say this, my very best students come from two sources 1)Jesuit High Schools, and 2) home schoolers.
And anyway, I have 3 freshman surveys this semester, it is midterm time, and I am feeling bitter.......good time to blame a standardidzed test for something!!!! 8)
Edited by Aolain on 03-06-12 03:21 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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sco
enthusiast
Posts: 2671
Loc: allen,TX USA
Reg: 10-26-02
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03-07-12 02:35 AM - Post#146361
In response to Dinsdale
In AISD, STAAR test scores are not currently, nor will they ever be, calculated into Grade Point Average. GPA is calculated from 2nd-semester averages, not year-end grades. The state education commissioner said in February that districts do not have to calculate STAAR scores into 9th-grade students' year-end averages for tested courses this year, so AISD is not doing that either.
You are correct that this year the EOC scores are not counted in the students' final grades. That is because the state delayed implementation of part of the new standard. The new standard from the state requires when it is fully implemented that the EOC count as part of the student's final grade. If that requirement stays in place I don't see that there is any way to avoid it affecting the students' GPA. The GPA and thus their class rank is calculated from their grades throughout their high school career not just any single semester. There is a real concern that moving forward the requirement could adversely affect students taking the more rigorous AP classes. The AP curriculum is geared toward the college board AP exam not the state test. I would not personally predict that those students will have any trouble passing the state test but without gearing the curriculum directly to that test they may not do extremely well which could affect their final grade, which could affect their GPA, which in turn could affect their chances of acceptance at universities. At the local level the GPA is weighted for AP classes. Universities typically look at unweighted GPA. The question then becomes are we putting our best students at a disadvantage nationally with this requirement?
Edited by sco on 03-07-12 02:49 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Dinsdale
member
Posts: 75
Reg: 08-26-06
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03-07-12 08:49 PM - Post#146380
In response to sco
There are only 12 EOC exams, and the AP/IB curriculum at AHS goes far beyond what's tested on the EOCs. A student taking AP Calculus AB, for example, doesn't have to worry about a Calculus EOC. Ditto for a student taking IB HL Math, AP Prob/Stat, AP or IB language, etc.
GPA is always calculated from 2nd semester grades, not year-end averages. If the course is one semester, the GPA is calculated on the semester average. There are no EOCs based on one-semester courses. When EOC scores are figured in to final grades starting with the 10th graders in the 2012-2013 school year, they will be calculated into year-end averages. So the EOC scores won't affect a student's GPA.
Colleges do look at unweighted GPA, but they look at the rigor of courses on the student's high school transcript first. Students can be putting themselves at a disadvantage if they don't take the most rigorous path possible in high school. For one thing they won't be prepared for the rigor of college, and for another, being in an "easy" class doesn't force kids to develop the ability to persevere through moments of academic challenge.
As for how the EOC standards align to AP and IB standards, the EOCs are aligned with the TEKS, and the College Board (not sure about the IBO) has gone to great pains to align their tested objectives on PSAT/SAT with every state's particular standards. I do not know the degree of alignment within a particular AP subject.
So much of this is wait-and-see until the first round of EOC testing is done and the state sets the scoring standards.
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