Aolain
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Posts: 1263
Reg: 11-13-06
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05-22-13 09:55 PM - Post#161132
As a student of the British Army, and for a variety of personal reasons, having a soft spot in my heart for British troops, we should consider the family of the young British squaddie (Royal Artillery) so savagely, and barbarously slaughtered in Woolwich, England, by members of a certain identifiable group.
I do not recommend that people google the video that exists.
While we have our problems of this nature, Britain is in a much more precarious situation for a number of reasons re: homegrown terrorists.
Please note that I have not identified any group.
I can tell you that lots of people in Britain are really, really, really mad about this.
Whether the British government has what it takes to deal with this kind of thing will be interesting to see.
On the other hand, the SAS is ready when ordered to do what has to be done.
God Bless the young lad. RIP.
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V-Girl
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05-22-13 10:43 PM - Post#161134
In response to Aolain
I just posted about it on Facebook. I had not heard about it until my husband showed me the article on Drudge Report. I saw one other friend had posted a link 20 minutes before mine. I saw nothing on Fox or MSNBC while I was catching up on the news today.
So sad. My prayers are with the victim's family and the witnesses.
Crazy doesn't even begin to cover it. 
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bbaker
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05-23-13 08:59 AM - Post#161143
In response to Aolain
There's a long story about it on CNN.com. They were proud of what they did and wanted their pictures taken. So sick these people.
Both men suspected in the attack were shot by police and are under guard at local hospitals. Authorities have not released their identities.
bbaker
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Don4
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Posts: 448
Loc: Allen 1993
Reg: 04-11-06
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05-23-13 09:41 AM - Post#161144
In response to V-Girl
I saw nothing on Fox or MSNBC while I was catching up on the news today.
It was on the evening 4, 5, 8, 11 TV news. Video and everything... all very disturbing and sad.
Edited by Don4 on 05-23-13 09:42 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Brewer
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Posts: 1382
Reg: 06-02-07
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05-23-13 09:56 AM - Post#161145
In response to Aolain
The killers were MUSLIMS! They were witnessed to have said allah akbar during the decapitation of a Soldier and espoused muslim dogma during the video.
Call the facts as they are. The time for PC crap is OVER. This has already come to America but you take the "moral high ground" and refuse to call a muslim extremist out for what they are. To what end?
"You will never be safe, We will not stop fighting"
Quote from the killer. BELIEVE IT.
A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week.
-GEN George S. Patton
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Edited by Brewer on 05-23-13 09:59 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Maurice
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Loc: Allen, TX
Reg: 12-03-01
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05-23-13 10:01 AM - Post#161146
In response to bbaker
Saw this yesterday shortly after it was first reported, very tragic and sad to see this happen. I'm sure if they let the SAS off the leash, retribution will be swift and decisive.
One of the most compelling and shocking parts of the video (IMO) was the woman just walking past the guy talking to the camera. There he was with bloody hands, holding two large knives and spouting off while the squaddies body lay in the street and this woman just ambles on past him without even a second glance. That's a person conditioned to just not be aware of her surroundings but to not be concerned either. Very sad.
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V-Girl
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Posts: 2817
Loc: Allen, TX, US
Reg: 07-12-01
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05-23-13 11:05 AM - Post#161153
In response to Don4
I saw nothing on Fox or MSNBC while I was catching up on the news today.
It was on the evening 4, 5, 8, 11 TV news. Video and everything... all very disturbing and sad.
No cable so we rarely watch live TV. My husband told me not to watch the videos. I'm glad I listened. The article and pics were disturbing enough.
Crazy doesn't even begin to cover it.
Will work for shoes! |
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jogo
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Posts: 1398
Reg: 08-31-05
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05-23-13 12:03 PM - Post#161156
In response to Maurice
There he was with bloody hands, holding two large knives and spouting off while the squaddies body lay in the street and this woman just ambles on past him without even a second glance. That's a person conditioned to just not be aware of her surroundings but to not be concerned either. Very sad.
I'm curious - what do you think she should have done? I think my reaction would have been the same as hers - draw as little attention to myself as possible and get the heck out of there as quickly as I could. She probably just walked up on the scene before she even realized what was going on.
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MCDUFF
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Posts: 261
Reg: 08-21-03
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05-23-13 01:13 PM - Post#161157
In response to jogo
Has anyone heard whether David Cameron has left for a campaign event in Scotland?
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Aolain
enthusiast
Posts: 1263
Reg: 11-13-06
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05-23-13 03:13 PM - Post#161162
In response to Brewer
Brewer:
I actually agree completely with you.
On the other hand, webby has, for I think pretty good reasons clamped down on some stuff here.
I think my not identifying a group was in the spirit of not forcing webby into a touchy position, as well as a bit of irony about PC nowadays.
Edited by Aolain on 05-23-13 03:13 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Al C
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Loc: McKinney/Allen, TX
Reg: 02-16-01
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05-23-13 07:25 PM - Post#161163
In response to MCDUFF
Has anyone heard whether David Cameron has left for a campaign event in Scotland?
Not before calling this what it is ... a terrorist attack. He was quick to declare it as such.
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Aolain
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Posts: 1263
Reg: 11-13-06
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05-24-13 08:05 PM - Post#161181
In response to Aolain
Update:
I was in error identifying the victim, drummer Rigby, as a member of the Royal Artillery--got fooled since he was stationed at Woolwich Barracks.
He was actually a member of 2 Royal Fusilers in London on recruiting duties.
He leaves a wife and 2 year old son.
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PartyOfEight
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Posts: 168
Reg: 12-09-07
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05-25-13 07:54 AM - Post#161192
In response to Aolain
I know this will not go over well, but unless we're willing to search within our own souls, we'll never end this unless we kill every last Muslim on the planet. Aolain, you didn't fully quote the man. He started his "You're not safe" bit with "If you don't leave us alone" and "This is an eye for an eye". We have to bear much of the responsibility for the actions we see here. If you search YouTube or Google, you'll endless atrocities that we've committed on innocent men, women and children from these regions. These things get posted too, but don't make the news cycle. We drone strike a village and kill everyone in the area to get to one individual. Worse yet, we bomb the exact area again within a few minutes to kill all the first responders trying to attend to the collateral damage. After ten years of this, how can we not expect such callousness and brutality. These men do not have the vast wealth to fight us drone for drone, but if the tables were turned, I'm curious what we'd tolerate as revenge to our Goliath enemy.
Don't take this in any way as condoning the acts of these men, but there's a much bigger picture here. Here are just a few examples of our foreign policy we should be questioning as an attempt to do our part to end this violence.
1) During the Afghan / Russian war, we funded and helped build the Madrasas and recruited uneducated Muslim men to be brainwashed into becoming militant extreme Muslims to bring up the number of fighters to push back Russia. At the time, we felt extremist Muslims were less a threat to our oil supplies than Russia. Although Russia was pushed back, we were left with some serious backlash with all the militant men left behind (Taliban - Bin Laden) all of which we helped create.
2) Muslims do not like Tyrant Dictators any more than we do, however we have propped up so many of these evil dictators because they bowed to us. This leaves the impression the West doesn't care about the people of the region nor their desire to have democracy. Look at Egypt. Once the people finally stood up and forced a democracy, the only political party with any funds or legitimacy was the Muslim Brotherhood. For years, we funded and assisted in the extermination of any opposition groups that could possibly threaten Mubarak.
3) Iran once was a pro-western democracy until the US and British governments helped overthrow their elected government and installed a dictator which eventually gave us what we deal with today. Again, over oil.
This subject is far more complicated than the usual Muslims are bad and we are always good story we hear from our media. I believe the only approach to resolve these conflicts is to address the whole issue. Sharia law tends to be practiced only in regions that we prop up dictators and kings.
Sorry if I've offended anyone here, but I've lived in and visited many of these regions enough to know their story too.
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Jimi Ray Clapton
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Posts: 2243
Reg: 09-03-07
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05-25-13 09:25 AM - Post#161193
In response to PartyOfEight
Outstanding post, POE.
Every time I learn of an event that has the tired label of "terrorism", I find myself wondering what it was that drove someone to the action that followed. What is it that caused them to be hurting so bad that they would lash out in violence?
I agree entirely with POE - if we don't try to understand and consider what it is that motivates this behavior we miss opportunity to perhaps avoid it altogether.
Like POE mentioned - I'm in no way condoning ANY act of violence. But the message is clear. Something causes people to go there - and I want to understand where they're coming from rather then to simply dismiss them as "religious crazies" hell bent on my destruction.
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StacyLynn624
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Posts: 908
Loc: East Side
Reg: 09-24-04
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05-25-13 10:58 AM - Post#161199
In response to Jimi Ray Clapton
Have any Muslim clerics that these radicals always seem to follow denounced these atrocities?
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mgrayar
enthusiast
Posts: 3684
Reg: 09-25-09
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05-25-13 06:44 PM - Post#161211
In response to StacyLynn624
Chico and Jimi, are you sure they want to be understood by infidels? The extremists I mean. That doesn't seem to be their angle. It seems they would rather us all go away. I don't see much search for understanding within their small deviant sects. They don't have any desire for us to "know" them, nor for them to know us. That's part of the sliver of the brain missing in a person that can even begin to go down the road to these type of actions.
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Al C
enthusiast
Posts: 5685
Loc: McKinney/Allen, TX
Reg: 02-16-01
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05-25-13 06:47 PM - Post#161212
In response to PartyOfEight
Michael Adebolajo ... the killer ... was born and raised in England. Friends and family say he became obsessed with radical Islam as a schoolboy.
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Maurice
Community Expert
Posts: 4056
Loc: Allen, TX
Reg: 12-03-01
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05-26-13 10:46 PM - Post#161243
In response to jogo
There he was with bloody hands, holding two large knives and spouting off while the squaddies body lay in the street and this woman just ambles on past him without even a second glance. That's a person conditioned to just not be aware of her surroundings but to not be concerned either. Very sad.
I'm curious - what do you think she should have done? I think my reaction would have been the same as hers - draw as little attention to myself as possible and get the heck out of there as quickly as I could. She probably just walked up on the scene before she even realized what was going on.
I would have expected someone who was paying attention to at the very least, cross the road and avoid the nutcase with the bloody hands and the two large, bloody knives but hey, that's just me. lol
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nomoon
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Posts: 998
Loc: Allen
Reg: 05-31-06
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05-30-13 10:57 PM - Post#161360
In response to Jimi Ray Clapton
But the message is clear. Something causes people to go there - and I want to understand where they're coming from rather then to simply dismiss them as "religious crazies" hell bent on my destruction.
I heard a radio interview by a criminal justice professor, Adam Lankford, who wrote a book called “ The Myth of Martyrdom: What Really Drives Suicide Bombers, Rampage Shooters, and Other Self-Destructive Killers.”
Analysts have some first hand psychological data on a handful of perpetrators who were captured alive because their detonation failed, etc… They also have additional information from family, friends, and associates of deceased perpetrators. One of the main findings is that the reported “Cause” appears to be a secondary driving force for their killings. Lankford argues that “terrorists are driven to suicide for the same reasons any civilian might be: depression, anxiety, marital strife, or professional failure.” When interviewing a failed bomber, instead of hearing screams against their oppressor, they tend to rant about their horrible family. There is apparently a huge stigma against suicide in the Middle East, but martyrdom offers an honorable way to commit suicide for them. In the radio interview, and presumably the book, the author discusses the dysfunctional social and family life of the leader or the 9/11 attackers. With Columbine, one was a true psychopath, and the other had depression.
I realize that the killer in Britain may not fit the profile of a suicidal killer exactly, since his attack didn’t appear to intentionally include his own immediate death. However, I wouldn’t be surprised to find out that there is significant overlap.
Here’s a short review of the book in Scientific American.
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Jimi Ray Clapton
enthusiast
Posts: 2243
Reg: 09-03-07
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06-05-13 08:47 AM - Post#161484
In response to nomoon
Yeah, that is interesting. Very much along the lines of what I was talking about.
Thanks for sharing.
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