Newbie
newbie
Posts: 2
Reg: 08-22-13
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08-22-13 01:19 PM - Post#163003
Friends in the district are telling me class sizes are the highest they've ever been..over 30 in a class the norm and teacher loads are over 160 students per teacher. I am new to Allen and this is not what I wanted to hear. I w already hesitant about choosing an area with such a large high school but friends encouraged my wife and I to give it a try. I hope there are plans to hire more teachers and if money is the issue, then maybe there are other avenues to explore. I'd rather have fewer students per teacher than let's say more computers.
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Cheatham Parent
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Posts: 225
Reg: 01-23-11
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08-22-13 01:35 PM - Post#163006
In response to Newbie
Someone has their facts wrong.
You can get this information from the Allen ISD website.
Student-Teacher Ratio Averages
Kindergarten 20.3
Grade 1 19.7
Grade 2 18.5
Grade 3 18.4
Grade 4 19.3
Grade 5 23.0
Grade 6 25.4
Mixed Grades 21.5
English/Language Arts 19.5
Foreign Language 21.9
Mathematics 21.5
Science 21.8
Social Studies 22.5
http://www.allenonline.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?...
According to U.S. News and World report the high school teacher ratio at Allen high school is 17:1
The post almost seems like someone has an agenda.
Edited by Cheatham Parent on 08-22-13 01:48 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Gary
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Posts: 427
Reg: 06-25-01
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08-22-13 01:38 PM - Post#163007
In response to Newbie
First, Welcome to Allen.
Classroom sizes in a few elementary schools were larger than usually last year. This year, because of rezoning and the opening of a new elementary school, the average class sizes will be reduced.
Are your concerns with a specific elementary, middle school or the high school?
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Newbie
newbie
Posts: 2
Reg: 08-22-13
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08-22-13 07:34 PM - Post#163026
In response to Gary
Thank you. My concern is for size of high school class, and yep, Cheatham parent, I do have a purpose of calling attention to a potential problem. You can call it an agenda, if you'd like. I look at published averages with skepticism because there are often disparities between live bodies and the "average" that actually includes special education teachers, counselors, and other personnel who work with small numbers of students or even one student at a time, but that is rarely made clear to the public. I certainly hope I'm hearing exaggerated numbers. I just thought a community forum would be a good place to see what others may have heard.
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Cheatham Parent
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Posts: 225
Reg: 01-23-11
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08-22-13 07:55 PM - Post#163027
In response to Newbie
Sorry, but your initial post came across as if you have an axe to grind. I tried to provide numbers, but Gary might have better information for you with regards to numbers you seek.
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vrs
enthusiast
Posts: 2845
Loc: Allen, Texas
Reg: 04-20-00
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08-22-13 09:16 PM - Post#163028
In response to Newbie
Newbie - welcome to Allen.
While it is true that the average class size includes counselors, librarians, special ed, etc. as you point out, it also includes band, choir, football and other extra large classes.
You are no doubt interested in core class sizes. The community forum is not the best place at all to get the kind of information you seek. There is a public information department for that.
I can tell you unequivocally that class sizes are NOT larger now than they have ever been at AHS and I did what I could for you - I made one phone call to a friend who works at the high school.
There are about 300 more students this year than last. Teachers have at least 6 contact periods so it would take 14 teachers to accommodate the new students for 7 periods with an average of 25 students per class. (Someone check my math - did this in my head and I am enjoying a glass of wine.)
My friend tells me there are 60 new employees at the HS this year - replacing attrition plus new positions. Core classes last year mostly ran between 21 and 26 students.
Here is another data point about Allen HS. The 2013 graduating class amassed right at 30 million dollars in college scholarships. Now there are tax dollars at work.
 
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mgrayar
enthusiast
Posts: 3859
Reg: 09-25-09
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08-23-13 06:29 AM - Post#163036
In response to vrs
We went to meet the teacher last night at the new Lindsey Elementary. We were told by a staff member that kindergarten enrollment has higher than projected, but they said they added another teacher to accommodate. I didn't count the names on my daughters classroom tables, but there couldn't have been more than about 20.
With Lindsey being projected by the district to be over ideal capacity in 2015, and enrollment already higher than projected (not sure beyond K), I am not sure what that will do for future classroom size.
I am certain Lindsey's projections will not be as dramatically off as the district's Cheatham projections ended up, but with the initial projections for Lindsay having it basically 1.5 classrooms away from maximum capacity in 2 years, there isn't much more room for error.
PS. The school was great and we are very happy with the staff. Getting in and out is quite a challenge with the narrow streets, but I'm sure they will figure something out. If anyone reading this has found a smooth way to get to the school without bobbing and weaving through parked cars and single lanes with oncoming traffic, please let me know.
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Edited by mgrayar on 08-23-13 06:34 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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mgrayar
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Posts: 3859
Reg: 09-25-09
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08-23-13 06:32 AM - Post#163037
In response to mgrayar
Double post
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Edited by mgrayar on 08-23-13 06:33 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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vrs
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Posts: 2845
Loc: Allen, Texas
Reg: 04-20-00
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08-23-13 07:06 AM - Post#163040
In response to mgrayar
Gotcha. Gotcha.
On Lindsey, I do not know how many unbuilt lots there are in that attendance zone or student yield per household. I do know that traditionally most new home buyers have kids and then then the kids grow up and the parents stay so enrollment swells and then declines over time for the same number of housetops.
The numbers on the opening post of this thread are not working. Each teacher is supposed to have at least 6 contact periods with students. So if the norm is over 30 students per class, then the average student load would be over 180. If the average student load is 160, then the norm is just under 27 students per class. I think it is probably lower than that but enough teachers read this that I am sure I'll get a PT if I am off.
At least at the HS the load is divided over two days. Consider the MS teacher who sees that same number of kids - each and every day. I don't know how they learn all the names by the end of the year - much less provide a quality learning experience for the individual students.
If you target 25 kids per class at the secondary level, the average teacher load is 150 students for 6 class periods. I don't see it coming down from there without driving costs way up. And, honestly, is there a difference in the quality of the student experience between a class with 23 students and one with 25? I am not sure there would be.
I do know a lot of kids at the HS who absolutely love it there. Since Newbie appears to be doing due diligence after the fact, he should give the place a chance and create positive expectations for his student.
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Al C
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Posts: 5920
Loc: McKinney/Allen, TX
Reg: 02-16-01
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08-23-13 09:06 AM - Post#163044
In response to vrs
Quite a few unbuilt lots in the 'hood around Lindsey. They had to add a 1st grade teacher at the last minute to take on the number of students. But I think most are at or just under 20 per class. Not bad. Sure wouldn't want to see it get much higher than that though.
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mgrayar
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Posts: 3859
Reg: 09-25-09
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08-23-13 09:31 AM - Post#163045
In response to Al C
Quite a few unbuilt lots in the 'hood around Lindsey. They had to add a 1st grade teacher at the last minute to take on the number of students. But I think most are at or just under 20 per class. Not bad. Sure wouldn't want to see it get much higher than that though.
Al, it's a matter of when not if. The school's ideal capacity is 855 I think. Max capacity is 950 or 955. The districts projections before these last minute additional classes was for Lindsey to level out at 917 in 2 years. That's above ideal capacity and below max capacity. Beth Nicholas said that above ideal capacity can result in less programs.
That was all before they were hit by even higher initial enrollment, like Cheatham in the last round. Cheatham was over max capacity by over a hundred kids for their 3rd school year.
I was told that there is discussion in place to start moving kids east. Shuffling kids from their over utilized schools in the west to less utilized schools on the more mature east side. What they don't want is the west schools to be at or above capacity while east side schools continue to be under enrolled. We should see a couple more balancing shifts in the future. It's that or build another school, but they are hard set on not going to the well for more bond money.
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Edited by mgrayar on 08-23-13 09:32 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Al C
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Posts: 5920
Loc: McKinney/Allen, TX
Reg: 02-16-01
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08-23-13 01:02 PM - Post#163052
In response to mgrayar
Al, it's a matter of when not if.
Indeed!
I was told that there is discussion in place to start moving kids east. Shuffling kids from their over utilized schools in the west to less utilized schools on the more mature east side. What they don't want is the west schools to be at or above capacity while east side schools continue to be under enrolled. We should see a couple more balancing shifts in the future. It's that or build another school, but they are hard set on not going to the well for more bond money.
I'm sure that will happen. Lots of parents won't be happy about it, but it's the only way to balance out the classes.
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Juicer
newbie
Posts: 3
Reg: 12-23-13
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12-23-13 02:40 AM - Post#165198
In response to Al C
I'm skeptic that all these new apartment near Bridgewater Crossing are going to make crowding worse.
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