Allensince1993
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Posts: 521
Reg: 06-06-12
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03-04-14 02:57 PM - Post#166613
In response to Jimi Ray Clapton
A lot of people on the 'left' admire Warren Buffet because of how he aligns with a lot of their views.
He is a respected businessman and understands that government needs a role in the marketplace.
I think there may be a connection there. 
Did you actually read that article? It's a valid question. In your post about that article and Buffet's views you didn't mention that right near the top of that it says:
However, he added, he wouldn't argue with President Obama's proposal for a more modest increase, to $10.10 an hour from $7.25 an hour currently.
Then he said:
He argues for raising the Earned Income Tax Credit, which gives tax money back to those earning below a certain income level.
Does this not roughly contribute/add to those freeloaders "who pay little-to-no tax at all"?
Weird... how you left those pertinent parts out.
9 Reasons Why Raising the Minimum Wage Is a Terrible Idea
Maybe you missed my earlier postings about EITC and that we could raise those credits? I believe I was the only one discussing the minimum wage that 'deep' or thoroughly. This article from Buffet hits it spot-on.
Maybe you missed the earlier postings where I concede that government is necessary in our marketplace (regulation, etc.).
There is no magic bullet but the extreme right or extreme left won't get the job done. I align myself to the middle with a lean to the right. Buffet is a middle with a lean ever so slightly to the left.
James DeLaGarza
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Jimi Ray Clapton
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Posts: 2394
Reg: 09-03-07
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03-04-14 03:09 PM - Post#166614
In response to Allensince1993
Ah, yes. Thanks. ; - )
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Jimi Ray Clapton
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Posts: 2394
Reg: 09-03-07
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03-04-14 03:36 PM - Post#166615
In response to Jimi Ray Clapton
It's a little hard to buy that there may actually be some progress on this issue, given the lackluster performance of this bunch for quite some time. But one can hope, assuming that this is actually a good thing (I certainly don't know enough to make that determination).
Obama to Republicans: You're Right, Let's Expand the Earned Income Tax Credit
President Obama to propose expanding Earned Income Tax Credit in budget plan
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Allenite
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Posts: 326
Loc: Allen, TX, USA
Reg: 06-18-01
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03-05-14 10:13 AM - Post#166625
In response to Jimi Ray Clapton
I've read everyone's thoughtful opinions, and I realize I'm very late to the thread.
I have a cynical view of the minimum wage issue: I don't buy the notion that leading Democrats care about the "working poor" and want to raise their wages for the sole benefit of the poor. Raising the minimum wage increases the amount of tax money that the Federal Government receives. Period. It's all about getting more tax dollars to spend. And the added benefit of this is that the Democrats get to persuade the poor that they need to keep voting Democrat so that they will be "cared about".
My second cynical view is of the "income gap" issue: I think those who are concerned about this need to just decide exactly how much they will allow us to earn. Put a number out there. Own it. The demonization of high income billionaires is getting ridiculous. The ability of the left to even make this an "issue" stems from what has been taught in public schools for the last 20-ish years. My kids constantly argued with me over "fairness". It wasn't "fair" that Johnny got to do something, or buy something, etc. The schools reinforce this notion that all things should be "fair". We now hear it daily from our President.
Life is not fair. Some people get childhood cancer and die. Some people grow up on a farm, while others are raised in a high-rise. Where will the "fairness police" stop? Liberals need to quit trying to be God, and accept that there are things that they cannot control. i.e. Climate, physical beauty, inner strength, physical strength, thoughts, the drive to succeed, etc, etc, etc.
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PartyOfEight
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Posts: 303
Reg: 12-09-07
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03-05-14 10:48 AM - Post#166626
In response to Allenite
I really do not mind anyone being rich. It's when they buy and corrupt our democracy that I become concerned. This country's greatest period was when the richest contributed more since they are the least impacted. Greater purchasing power of the masses inevitably means more riches for the uber-rich. I think the extremely rich could ultimately view it as an investment. The super rich are not recirculating the the purchasing power even close to that of the middle class. This is an element of the wealth divide that can be controlled and ultimately betters us all. We can have this conversation about demonizing the rich when we can stop allowing them unbridled access to our collective treasures. The subsidies going out to the richest corporations in America could fund an education system that could put this country back on top again. As the divide in wealth further widens, so does our status in the world regarding health care, education, infrastructure, etc. The status of our country has continuously fallen in all these areas as the richest 1% continue to siphon off our wealth. I've spent a great deal of time in the 3rd world where the divide between the rich and poor is similar to ours and I fear we could soon experience much of the disparity I've seen in the Middle East and India. I truly hate to imagine a real social breakdown in this nation. One serious disruption in this economy could create vigilantism and lawlessness unseen in the rest of the world. There are enough weapons alone circulating in America to slaughter the majority of us. Social and wealth gaps that continue to grow based on the arbitrary value of a man's work by the super rich will eventually lead to our destruction. Civilized society which is holding on by only a thread can and will only survive when all men, women and children in this country know they possess value to our collective society. Capitalism took down Communism and it's taking major bites out of our Democracy in its current form. Oh, and the idea the rich work harder or have more ambition than the rest of society is complete BS. It's power and connections that keep the super rich super rich.
Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of a cancer cell.
Edward Abbey |
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Jimi Ray Clapton
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Posts: 2394
Reg: 09-03-07
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03-05-14 11:06 AM - Post#166627
In response to PartyOfEight
Well said, POE. Very well said.
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Allenite
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Posts: 326
Loc: Allen, TX, USA
Reg: 06-18-01
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03-05-14 12:00 PM - Post#166628
In response to Jimi Ray Clapton
PartofEight: Your comments are a good example of the points I try to make regarding liberal arguments: vague, unprovable, and emotion based with very little facts/data.
But, thanks for the reply. I enjoy the political battles.
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mgrayar
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Posts: 3859
Reg: 09-25-09
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03-05-14 12:35 PM - Post#166629
In response to Jimi Ray Clapton
Jimi. I read Buffets comments a little differently. It sounded like he said he wouldn't argue with a more modest increase to the minimum wage, but felt that changing the earned income credit would be a better solution. It did not seem like he was suggesting both.
My take away was that buffet would be more inclined to support keeping the minimum wage where it is, but offsetting income with a different credit structure. However, if Obama were to want to do a modest increase instead, he wouldn't argue with it. Obama has not suggested the credit idea at all.
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Jimi Ray Clapton
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Posts: 2394
Reg: 09-03-07
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03-05-14 01:19 PM - Post#166631
In response to mgrayar
Jimi. I read Buffets comments a little differently. It sounded like he said he wouldn't argue with a more modest increase to the minimum wage, but felt that changing the earned income credit would be a better solution. It did not seem like he was suggesting both.
My take away was that buffet would be more inclined to support keeping the minimum wage where it is, but offsetting income with a different credit structure. However, if Obama were to want to do a modest increase instead, he wouldn't argue with it. Obama has not suggested the credit idea at all.
Absolutely. I see exactly what you mean and what you're saying. If I gave the impression, I did not mean to let on that I interpreted that any other way.
I increasingly prefer clarity in these discussions and thought that James, in that particular post, was not being as clear about Buffet's views as he could have been. Also, no doubt, that clarity was a click away for those that wanted to go there.
I'll also acknowledge that I am less than clear from time to time. Apparently, this was a good example.
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pup
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Posts: 3933
Reg: 03-29-06
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03-05-14 04:55 PM - Post#166633
In response to Jimi Ray Clapton
To me, the minimum wage vs. earned income tax credit debate is all about who's dangling the golden carrot that will buy the most votes.
If it wasn't, they would have addressed it in a non-election year.
But since there is an election this fall, it's pandering time.
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mgrayar
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Posts: 3859
Reg: 09-25-09
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03-05-14 07:58 PM - Post#166639
In response to pup
To me, the minimum wage vs. earned income tax credit debate is all about who's dangling the golden carrot that will buy the most votes.
If it wasn't, they would have addressed it in a non-election year.
But since there is an election this fall, it's pandering time.
This is another good point. I do find the timing of many of these type of policy issues very convenient. Minimum wage wasn't important last year? Year before?
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PartyOfEight
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Posts: 303
Reg: 12-09-07
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03-07-14 11:49 AM - Post#166697
In response to Allenite
PartofEight: Your comments are a good example of the points I try to make regarding liberal arguments: vague, unprovable, and emotion based with very little facts/data.
But, thanks for the reply. I enjoy the political battles.
I would respectfully submit that the obvious often hides in plain sight. We can all twist numbers to meet our ideological beliefs. 50+ years of living in the US and abroad has given me a perspective that questions the standard, mainstream beliefs we're spoon fed here.
Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of a cancer cell.
Edward Abbey |
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