DrivinTooFast
enthusiast
Posts: 1880
Reg: 02-20-08
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06-23-14 09:59 AM - Post#169284
In response to readingu
10 year old device. Just set all the times for whatever zones but NO days. Then the day that is allowed go switch it to the designated holy day. Then the day after that holy day switch off. Works and saves me 300 bucks. Not an engineered egotist, just someone with a little logic to pass on.
Not a bad solution. I had not thought of taking all the days out of the programming. The only problem is I use 3 shorter watering cycles (as resommended) to reduce runoff. Our clay soils like to be watered slowly over long periods of time. If you run your heads for more than 5-7 minutes continuously, the soil cannot absorb the water fast enough. So I spread my total watering time out over three cycles.
But not a bad way to semi-automatically water.
Edited by DrivinTooFast on 06-23-14 10:03 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Stirling
enthusiast
Posts: 179
Reg: 03-06-12
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06-23-14 11:22 AM - Post#169288
In response to DrivinTooFast
My yard got watered yesterday and today. I wonder if they'll give me a ticket.
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javaprincess
enthusiast
Posts: 155
Reg: 06-01-10
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06-23-14 11:55 AM - Post#169289
In response to Stirling
I have a regular 7 day timer that most people probably have. I programmed it to run on the watering day of the week. The timer is set to off most of the time.
Then I add reminders on my outlook calendar (or whatever calendar on your smartphone) to go turn it on the night before my every other week watering day, then another reminder the morning after the watering day to turn it off.
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richardb
enthusiast
Posts: 614
Loc: Allen
Reg: 04-17-00
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06-23-14 11:59 AM - Post#169290
In response to asmile4u
Just an idea to toss around, as it seems the NTMWD and the city's only conservation plan is to let your landscaping die.
Scenario 1-My watering day is every other Friday. Let's say, rain is in the forecast for Saturday and Saturday night. Not wanting to take any chances because it would be another two weeks before I could 'legally' water, I have to water on Friday. Simply cannot risk not to. Then, lo and behold, it rains on Saturday, enough that would normally be a good soaking for my yard.
Now I just watered a day using city water that I could have avoided. Now multiply that by tens of thousands.
Scenario 2-My watering day is Friday and rain is forecast for Saturday. I hold off watering and then, as frequently happens, the forecast was wrong. Legally now, I would have to wait two more weeks, which would make it 4 weeks between watering.
Solution-If you hold off watering on your scheduled water day, then it doesn't rain, you get to water the next day legally without fear of being busted. No more water would be used than would have been used two days before, so no additional water usage above the norm.
It's all on an honor system anyway when we do or do not water, but think how much water could have been saved if you were given the window to hold off for 24-48 hours to see if we get rain. At least it's an alternative to the current senseless plan we have.
My watering day was this past Saturday. A chance of rain was predicted for Sunday. For my past two watering days, rain was predicted for the day after, but I couldn't take a chance in case it didn't, so I watered. Both times I received a measurable amount of rain the next day. If I had been able to hold off to see if it did rain, and been given a 24 hour variance in case it didn't, I wouldn't have had to water. Multiply that by the hundreds, if not thousands, of homes in my zone and think how much water could have been saved.
Tomorrow night the council is considering a variance to allow hand water of lawns for up to two hours daily. This morning I emailed your idea to the city. Hopefully it will be given some consideration.
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rclark
enthusiast
Posts: 814
Loc: Allen, TX
Reg: 01-16-08
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06-23-14 12:24 PM - Post#169291
In response to csquare
At this point, what we need are manual-start controllers. On mine, I have to put it in auto mode to get it to run with the manual start button.
Two plus two equals five, for sufficiently large values of two.
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StacyLynn624
enthusiast
Posts: 1094
Loc: West Side
Reg: 09-24-04
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06-23-14 12:28 PM - Post#169292
In response to richardb
Tomorrow night the council is considering a variance to allow hand water of lawns for up to two hours daily. This morning I emailed your idea to the city. Hopefully it will be given some consideration.
Hopefully, they'll approve something that is a win for homeowners of mature lawns and local landscape companies.
Now, we just need to fix the misdemeanor part and the hoop jumping. That's insane.
Why can't Allen be an example of a Government that works without stupid, money-wasting red tape?
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SB
enthusiast
Posts: 1554
Reg: 09-07-03
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06-23-14 02:09 PM - Post#169295
In response to StacyLynn624
I'd counter that Allen does work well. No organizational effort will be perfect whether it is government or private sector. Glitches and judgement errors happen in both. Red tape is often something we demand of government so that there will be checks and balances to give more protections to our tax money.
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StacyLynn624
enthusiast
Posts: 1094
Loc: West Side
Reg: 09-24-04
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06-23-14 11:50 PM - Post#169312
In response to SB
I was talking more about the hoops DTF had to go through to get the court date. The multiple visits, etc.
Again, if they want to deter overuse of water with "pain", do it at the front end with higher water rates. Don't do it with a PITA process that no one knows about until you get caught. It's stupid and a waste of time and money for everyone.
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DrivinTooFast
enthusiast
Posts: 1880
Reg: 02-20-08
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06-24-14 06:40 AM - Post#169313
In response to StacyLynn624
Exactly my point. When was the last time you opened the water bill and said OH MY GOSH!!! Unless of course you had a water leak or a toilet that never stopped flushing. Then you ran to the phone to fix the problem.
However, we open the summer electric bill and everyone is scurrying to figure out how to save electricity. That is the power of a free market. Scarcity and costs drive behavior. Instead of 6 pairs of 8-hour shifts trying to enforce behavior, you have 24,000 eyes working 24x7 to change behavior.
For a community that is generally conservative and small government oriented, it seems that we allow the local government to balloon into a overfed bureaucracy. This can change.
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Bobcat
member
Posts: 51
Reg: 12-10-11
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06-24-14 09:14 AM - Post#169315
In response to DrivinTooFast
10 year old device. Just set all the times for whatever zones but NO days. Then the day that is allowed go switch it to the designated holy day. Then the day after that holy day switch off. Works and saves me 300 bucks. Not an engineered egotist, just someone with a little logic to pass on.
Not a bad solution. I had not thought of taking all the days out of the programming. The only problem is I use 3 shorter watering cycles (as resommended) to reduce runoff. Our clay soils like to be watered slowly over long periods of time. If you run your heads for more than 5-7 minutes continuously, the soil cannot absorb the water fast enough. So I spread my total watering time out over three cycles.
But not a bad way to semi-automatically water.
From the city's website, "Limit landscape watering with sprinklers or irrigation systems between November 1 and March 31 to once every two weeks. At the request of the NTMWD, we will remain at once every two weeks watering through July 5, 2014.
Since you use 3 short cycles on your watering day, I wonder if the "watering police" would consider that a violation? I could see them taking a hardline approach and claim you are watering 3 times....
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SB
enthusiast
Posts: 1554
Reg: 09-07-03
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06-24-14 09:52 AM - Post#169316
In response to StacyLynn624
Restrictions without enforcement or penalty will not likely achieve the desired conservation goals.
Water is a different public good than water and can't be priced out of anyone's reach. I can live without electricity even if I'd be unhappy and miss the modern conveniences it allows. I'd die without water.
Allen does have a water rate structure with tiered rates that include increasing per gallon rates for increased water use.
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DrivinTooFast
enthusiast
Posts: 1880
Reg: 02-20-08
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06-24-14 10:31 AM - Post#169318
In response to SB
The current tier pricing structure is NOT having the desired psychological effect. It needs to escalate faster in order to have an effect on consumers.
Until you get a "WHOA!!"/"WTF" bill, you will continue to use water like it is free.
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DrivinTooFast
enthusiast
Posts: 1880
Reg: 02-20-08
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06-24-14 10:33 AM - Post#169319
In response to Bobcat
10 year old device. Just set all the times for whatever zones but NO days. Then the day that is allowed go switch it to the designated holy day. Then the day after that holy day switch off. Works and saves me 300 bucks. Not an engineered egotist, just someone with a little logic to pass on.
Not a bad solution. I had not thought of taking all the days out of the programming. The only problem is I use 3 shorter watering cycles (as resommended) to reduce runoff. Our clay soils like to be watered slowly over long periods of time. If you run your heads for more than 5-7 minutes continuously, the soil cannot absorb the water fast enough. So I spread my total watering time out over three cycles.
But not a bad way to semi-automatically water.
From the city's website, "Limit landscape watering with sprinklers or irrigation systems between November 1 and March 31 to once every two weeks. At the request of the NTMWD, we will remain at once every two weeks watering through July 5, 2014.
Since you use 3 short cycles on your watering day, I wonder if the "watering police" would consider that a violation? I could see them taking a hardline approach and claim you are watering 3 times....
Spacing your watering out during your watering day is not a violation. Kind of reaching there Alice.
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StacyLynn624
enthusiast
Posts: 1094
Loc: West Side
Reg: 09-24-04
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06-24-14 11:46 AM - Post#169322
In response to SB
Restrictions without enforcement or penalty will not likely achieve the desired conservation goals.
Water is a different public good than water and can't be priced out of anyone's reach. I can live without electricity even if I'd be unhappy and miss the modern conveniences it allows. I'd die without water.
Allen does have a water rate structure with tiered rates that include increasing per gallon rates for increased water use.
Where did I ever say that they shouldn't have a fine or penalty? I didn't.
Here's the thing that you don't seem to get. I understand that there are currently tier rates, but I'm saying they aren't punitive. The driving to and fro and dealing with Government officials - no one knows about that part. How can it be a deterrent if no one knows? It's not. Get it?
Increase the tier rates. If you fill a 10,000 gallon pool, it should cost $500, not $125.
Have the fine, but don't make people drive here, there and everywhere, and show up 5 separate times, call 5 separate people, and then get charged with a Class B Misdemeanor.
Here's how it should go:
Increase the tiers to be more punitive. Maybe increase the second tier by $1-5 per gallon, and the third tier gets a flat $50 added to your bill if you hit it. Call it a tax (that's what it is).
If you get busted with a violation, add a $300-500 fine to the water bill. No driving to the Stacy Rd location. No driving anywhere.
Don't allow City Officials to be jerks who have big power trips.
Allow for a process of appeal. Stuff happens. Everyone who has a sprinkler timer has had a storm trip the system. Everyone. Have some leniency for those who can prove it. Be cooperative, not an assumption of guilt.
Put this outline ON the bill every month. Put "$300 (or $500) fine per violation" on the Stage 3 signs all over town. Everyone knows.
Done. No driving, no misdemeanors, no red tape, no stupid bureaucracy, no power trips. Keep it simple stupid.
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mgrayar
enthusiast
Posts: 3861
Reg: 09-25-09
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06-24-14 12:01 PM - Post#169323
In response to DrivinTooFast
10 year old device. Just set all the times for whatever zones but NO days. Then the day that is allowed go switch it to the designated holy day. Then the day after that holy day switch off. Works and saves me 300 bucks. Not an engineered egotist, just someone with a little logic to pass on.
Not a bad solution. I had not thought of taking all the days out of the programming. The only problem is I use 3 shorter watering cycles (as resommended) to reduce runoff. Our clay soils like to be watered slowly over long periods of time. If you run your heads for more than 5-7 minutes continuously, the soil cannot absorb the water fast enough. So I spread my total watering time out over three cycles.
But not a bad way to semi-automatically water.
From the city's website, "Limit landscape watering with sprinklers or irrigation systems between November 1 and March 31 to once every two weeks. At the request of the NTMWD, we will remain at once every two weeks watering through July 5, 2014.
Since you use 3 short cycles on your watering day, I wonder if the "watering police" would consider that a violation? I could see them taking a hardline approach and claim you are watering 3 times....
Spacing your watering out during your watering day is not a violation. Kind of reaching there Alice.
It is actually better to space it out to avoid runoff. Our soil is too dry to take in all the water our lawn needs in one longer period.
Learn more about Cystic Fibrosis and how you can help at:
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asmile4u
enthusiast
Posts: 909
Loc: Allen
Reg: 04-20-08
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06-24-14 12:35 PM - Post#169326
In response to SB
Restrictions without enforcement or penalty will not likely achieve the desired conservation goals.
Well, the kicker in this whole equation is it is impossible to enforce the water restrictions. The only way to effectively enforce it would be to have 50 city employees driving every street of every neighborhood 24/7 and that isn't going to happen. Just as even a blind squirrel finds an acorn occasionally, the water restriction officer will luck out and drive up on a DTF. Their job is to enforce and issue citations, regardless of what the actual circumstances may be. Hopefully DTF's day in court will expose this flaw.
In my neighborhood alone, my guess is at least 4 in 10 homes water every day in some manner. Some just water their flower beds, while some water their whole lawn, very much like many businesses in Allen do. Another 30% water twice a week, so 70% in my neighborhood alone do not adhere to the current restrictions that are in place. No one, to my knowledge, has received a citation.
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SB
enthusiast
Posts: 1554
Reg: 09-07-03
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06-24-14 01:05 PM - Post#169327
In response to StacyLynn624
Oh, I understand what you are saying. I just believe some of your statements are incorrect and some suggestions of yours I disagree with. It is just that simple.
Restrictions without enforcement or penalty will not likely achieve the desired conservation goals.
Water is a different public good than water and can't be priced out of anyone's reach. I can live without electricity even if I'd be unhappy and miss the modern conveniences it allows. I'd die without water.
Allen does have a water rate structure with tiered rates that include increasing per gallon rates for increased water use.
Where did I ever say that they shouldn't have a fine or penalty? I didn't.
Have the fine, but don't make people drive here, there and everywhere, and show up 5 separate times, call 5 separate people, and then get charged with a Class B Misdemeanor.
Here's how it should go:
. . .
Keep it simple stupid.
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Bobcat
member
Posts: 51
Reg: 12-10-11
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06-24-14 01:05 PM - Post#169328
In response to DrivinTooFast
10 year old device. Just set all the times for whatever zones but NO days. Then the day that is allowed go switch it to the designated holy day. Then the day after that holy day switch off. Works and saves me 300 bucks. Not an engineered egotist, just someone with a little logic to pass on.
Not a bad solution. I had not thought of taking all the days out of the programming. The only problem is I use 3 shorter watering cycles (as resommended) to reduce runoff. Our clay soils like to be watered slowly over long periods of time. If you run your heads for more than 5-7 minutes continuously, the soil cannot absorb the water fast enough. So I spread my total watering time out over three cycles.
But not a bad way to semi-automatically water.
From the city's website, "Limit landscape watering with sprinklers or irrigation systems between November 1 and March 31 to once every two weeks. At the request of the NTMWD, we will remain at once every two weeks watering through July 5, 2014.
Since you use 3 short cycles on your watering day, I wonder if the "watering police" would consider that a violation? I could see them taking a hardline approach and claim you are watering 3 times....
Spacing your watering out during your watering day is not a violation. Kind of reaching there Alice.
Grow up, no need for name calling.
I was just pointing out that if they are as unreasonable as you claim they are, I wouldn't be surprised to see them taking that stance.
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SB
enthusiast
Posts: 1554
Reg: 09-07-03
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06-24-14 01:13 PM - Post#169329
In response to asmile4u
Actually, random reward or punishment is quite effective as a behavior modification tool as well as being cost efficient. Allen is exceeding almost all other cities in the water district in conservation efforts. A pat on the back for all of us collectively.
Restrictions without enforcement or penalty will not likely achieve the desired conservation goals.
Well, the kicker in this whole equation is it is impossible to enforce the water restrictions. The only way to effectively enforce it would be to have 50 city employees driving every street of every neighborhood 24/7 and that isn't going to happen. Just as even a blind squirrel finds an acorn occasionally, the water restriction officer will luck out and drive up on a DTF. Their job is to enforce and issue citations, regardless of what the actual circumstances may be. Hopefully DTF's day in court will expose this flaw.
In my neighborhood alone, my guess is at least 4 in 10 homes water every day in some manner. Some just water their flower beds, while some water their whole lawn, very much like many businesses in Allen do. Another 30% water twice a week, so 70% in my neighborhood alone do not adhere to the current restrictions that are in place. No one, to my knowledge, has received a citation.
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DrivinTooFast
enthusiast
Posts: 1880
Reg: 02-20-08
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06-24-14 01:18 PM - Post#169330
In response to SB
Actually, random reward or punishment is quite effective as a behavior modification tool as well as being cost efficient. Allen is exceeding almost all other cities in the water district in conservation efforts. A pat on the back for all of us collectively.
Restrictions without enforcement or penalty will not likely achieve the desired conservation goals.
Well, the kicker in this whole equation is it is impossible to enforce the water restrictions. The only way to effectively enforce it would be to have 50 city employees driving every street of every neighborhood 24/7 and that isn't going to happen. Just as even a blind squirrel finds an acorn occasionally, the water restriction officer will luck out and drive up on a DTF. Their job is to enforce and issue citations, regardless of what the actual circumstances may be. Hopefully DTF's day in court will expose this flaw.
In my neighborhood alone, my guess is at least 4 in 10 homes water every day in some manner. Some just water their flower beds, while some water their whole lawn, very much like many businesses in Allen do. Another 30% water twice a week, so 70% in my neighborhood alone do not adhere to the current restrictions that are in place. No one, to my knowledge, has received a citation.
You used the word efficient - PLEASE explain how this process is efficient?
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