Jimi Ray Clapton
enthusiast
Posts: 2394
Reg: 09-03-07
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06-26-14 09:12 PM - Post#169406
I know this has been discussed here before. This article shed some light on this subject so I thought I'd share:
Our property tax system is rigged
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richardb
enthusiast
Posts: 613
Loc: Allen
Reg: 04-17-00
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06-27-14 11:23 AM - Post#169408
In response to Jimi Ray Clapton
Rigged is a most applicable description when discussing property tax evaluations in Texas. In 1981, Texas amended it's Property Statute Code to create the Central Appraisal Districts to make ad valorem taxes more equitable. In 1982, each county had implemented their own CAD and began the process of assessing property values from which all appropriate taxing entities (county,city, school districts, junior colleges, etc) based their tax rate off of.
In principle it was the needed thing to do. Too many taxable properties were not on local tax rolls because there was just too much land and structures in Texas for the state to be able to physically evaluate all the properties of all 254 counties.
Each county now had that responsibility. In theory, it was supposed to add taxable property to the tax roll in a legal manner that would increase the tax base and enable the lowering of tax rates.
But as dealings go with any government entity, whether city, county or state level, even national, there's always someone figuring out someway to circumvent the system and in the end, the working class are the ones who have to open up their pocketbooks.
The article in
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Janice
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Posts: 167
Loc: Allen, Tx USA
Reg: 07-08-02
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06-27-14 11:46 AM - Post#169409
In response to richardb
Here's an idea - how about a flat tax? I find it absurd that just because my house costs more than some, I have to pay more in taxes. Same holds true for those who have homes valued greater than mine. Why should they pay more? We all have access to the same schools, parks, city resources, etc. Nah, let's just penalize those that are more successful. Yeah, that makes sense.
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chf
enthusiast
Posts: 574
Loc: NW Allen
Reg: 12-22-07
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06-27-14 12:17 PM - Post#169410
In response to Janice
Because a flat tax is inherently regressive from an impact perspective. Those with less means pay more as a percentage than those more "successful". That's "punishing" the less successful, to use your term.
The main problem is that property taxes are taxing the value of a non-liquid asset instead of income. This adversely impacts homeowners (mainly retirees) with paid-for homes but fixed income.
Actually, what you are suggesting is a flat fee, not a flat tax, which is even more regressive. Property taxes actually are a "flat tax", as we all pay the same percentage. By your reasoning, our Federal taxes should just be everyone write a check for the same amount to the IRS, no matter what income level they have. That's patently unfair and absurd.
Edited by chf on 06-27-14 12:23 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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richardb
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Posts: 613
Loc: Allen
Reg: 04-17-00
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06-27-14 01:36 PM - Post#169411
In response to Janice
Taxes are never fair, no matter what type or source they are. Consider those in Allen who pay school taxes who have no children attending AISD. When my sons were attending, I paid. They are now grown, long ago finishing at AISD and I still pay school taxes. Never had a child attend CCCC, but pay taxes for it also.
IRS taxes are just as unfair, but that's another subject.
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mgrayar
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Posts: 3859
Reg: 09-25-09
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06-27-14 07:34 PM - Post#169413
In response to richardb
Is this the local Tea Party thread?
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SB
enthusiast
Posts: 1551
Reg: 09-07-03
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06-27-14 08:04 PM - Post#169415
In response to mgrayar
I've never had kids in AISD or CCCC. Still, I think my taxes are fair. Both school systems are excellent and are a draw for business looking to locate here and to potential residents. This helps the local economy which benefits me and also supports the increasing value of real property that I own. I've never called the fire department or police but I place value on their presence. I think the taxes I pay and the value I receive directly or indirectly is a fair deal.
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richardb
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Posts: 613
Loc: Allen
Reg: 04-17-00
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06-27-14 10:07 PM - Post#169417
In response to mgrayar
Is this the local Tea Party thread?
My response was to Janice. No other underlying messages. One doesn't have to be a Tea Party supporter to discuss the overall inequities of taxation, just a taxpayer looking for fairness in the taxation process.
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mgrayar
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Posts: 3859
Reg: 09-25-09
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06-27-14 10:19 PM - Post#169418
In response to richardb
Is this the local Tea Party thread?
My response was to Janice. No other underlying messages. One doesn't have to be a Tea Party supporter to discuss the overall inequities of taxation, just a taxpayer looking for fairness in the taxation process.
It was a joke.
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richardb
enthusiast
Posts: 613
Loc: Allen
Reg: 04-17-00
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06-28-14 08:18 AM - Post#169419
In response to mgrayar
Sorry, mistook you for someone else. 
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Jimi Ray Clapton
enthusiast
Posts: 2394
Reg: 09-03-07
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06-28-14 08:57 AM - Post#169420
In response to mgrayar
Is this the local Tea Party thread?
Yes!
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Allensince1993
enthusiast
Posts: 521
Reg: 06-06-12
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06-28-14 07:06 PM - Post#169422
In response to Jimi Ray Clapton
Not seeing many address the actual article. The system is rigged because it protects businesses from being properly evaluated. Something needs to change so they pay their fair share of taxes.
Regarding flat tax and property taxes, etc. I don't buy many of the arguments being presented. Some complain we're taxed too much and others say we don't get taxed enough. I will say this: I ABSOLUTELY AGREE WITH HOW WE TAX PROPERTIES. If you own a $100k house in Allen you'll pay about $2,600 per year. If you own a $1M home you'll pay about $26,000 per year. If you are wealthier you should pay more. I'm also an advocate for a flat tax. Get rid of ALL loopholes (including mortgage write-off...EVERYTHING) and do a flat tax. If you make $10,000 you pay $1,000 in taxes. If you make $100,000 per year you pay $10,000 in taxes. Telling me this hurts the poor is a JOKE. Everyone should have 'skin in the game' and an incentive to get ahead and not stay stuck in the lower brackets. And the wealthy shouldn't subsidize the poor. We are all in this together and we can all contribute. If someone is going without then the pool of revenue helps them. Our IRS code is a joke.
You make more you PAY more in taxes. Fair.
You live in a nicer (higher evaluation) house you PAY more in taxes. Fair.
James DeLaGarza
Realtor/Broker since 1992 |
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DavidP
newbie
Posts: 24
Reg: 12-01-10
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06-28-14 09:34 PM - Post#169427
In response to Allensince1993
Well the system is not rigged. In fact, the Texas system is one of the fairest of all 50 states. Many states do not allow a protest based on equity. many states re-value your property when it sells to the new purchase price.
Most small businesses are locally owned and pay rent to lease a business space whether it be office, retail, industrial. When a property sells now the appraisal district "chases" that sale and places that property at the purchase price. But what about the other similar commercial properties. They more times than not will not be re-appraised. So the business tenants who lease space in this "sold" property pay a much higher tax than their competition pays.
This means the operating cost for the businesses in the "sold" property are at a competitive disadvantage. Is this "fair"?
Be realistic, all taxes are paid by the consumer through price increases on products to cover the additional expense/tax. UNLESS some other competitor can sell the same widget for less because their taxes are lower. This in some cases causes business to close of for the tenant to move when the lease expires. Now there is an empty property which will pay lower taxes because the property is under performing.
All that needs to be done is for the appraisal districts to do their job correctly and use the sales data they receive to re-appraise all similar properties equally and equity appeals would not be necessary. I still doubt tax rates would decline with the increased values. Government would just spend more money!
But wait, the appraisal district does not bake that pie (tax roll). The pie is made by the local governments who happily take the increased appraisal roll value, reduce the tax rate by a hundredth of a red cent and say they have cut taxes again. Your taxes will only go up if your value increased. You heard that before? But when values go down they surely do not just increase the tax rate one hundreth of a red cent. Total tax rates used to be about 1%. In the last 20 years they have increased to 2.5 to 3% depending on the area you live.
Government just has an ever increasing appetite for more of your money. The best way to explain taxes is the use of a roman scale.
The balance point is the "budget" or taxes to be spent. The left side is the "valuation" or appraisal roll. The right side is the tax rate. Tax rate multiplied by valuation equals taxes or the balance point.
When values increase and the balance point "taxes" does not change as you government officials constantly maintain, then the tax rate must decline by the same ratio as the value increase to maintain the balance point. Problem is the values keep going up along with new construction and millions of additional dollars in rollback taxes as farmland is developed....and yet the tax rates do not decline accordingly.
If you really want to find out the problem in the Texas Tax System or any other state for that matter, you need look no further than the officials that are elected or appointed to office. They are the ones who bake that pie! The values only serve the pie up! Or call it cake if you prefer.
And as far as the comment in the article about the legal fees being paid by each party on tax litigation. The simple fact is they usually are paid by each side unless the case goes to trial which is less than 1% of cases. So guess what the taxpayer pays all those too. The plantiff pays their legal fees and the appraisal district pays theirs. Guess where the appraisal district gets their money from... you get 3 guesses and the first 2 don't count. :)
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