waskigirl
enthusiast
Posts: 182
Loc: Morningside
Reg: 10-27-05
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11-24-08 09:19 PM - Post#71461
Whatever happened to Christmas/holiday programs we used to have in elementary school up on the stage? Is this change specific to Texas or is it happening nation-wide?
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Levansfour
enthusiast
Posts: 246
Reg: 05-09-05
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11-24-08 09:34 PM - Post#71462
In response to waskigirl
Back in the day it was not a Hoilday program it was a Christmas program. We all know that we only do winter parties.Not Christmas Parties.We could not even have paper plates with santa on them.
Not to mention that the music department in the elementry levels is one day a week. That does not provide enough time to put anything together.
Use to just a few years back the 6th grade choir would do a Holiday concert. But I am not sure that still happens.
I know that this year some schools actually did a thanksgiving program. Not sure if it was strickly kindergarten or if it involved other grades as well.
I know that the High school encore Choir will be at most of the elementry schools to do their program for the kids.And the choir and orcherstra will do a concert of some sort before the winter break.
I am afraid that the good old fashion skits and plays from elementry schools are gone.No time between PE requirements, TAK testing and all the other required testing. A play would take away from any learning time.
It sure is sad.
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jogo
enthusiast
Posts: 657
Reg: 08-31-05
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11-24-08 09:43 PM - Post#71463
In response to waskigirl
Since so many cultures are now represented in our schools, I think some of the programs have been done away with in order not to offend anyone. Someone would get their nose out of joint if their particular cultural/religious beliefs weren't represented correctly or not included at all! It's very sad really ...
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waskigirl
enthusiast
Posts: 182
Loc: Morningside
Reg: 10-27-05
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11-24-08 10:04 PM - Post#71466
In response to jogo
Interesting that the allowed Marion PTA to do Santa pictures if that's the case
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jogo
enthusiast
Posts: 657
Reg: 08-31-05
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11-24-08 10:40 PM - Post#71467
In response to waskigirl
I imagine it was allowed because it was an optional fundraiser - kids weren't required to have a picture with Santa as part of their school day activities. SHHHHH though because I'm sure some parent will complain that their cultural holiday icon wasn't represented .
I just watched the piece on Channel 8 about some Plano parents being upset about the holiday paegant music selection. They didn't like the 12 Days After Christmas song because it talked about hunting turtle doves or something like that ... someone always finds something to complain about!!
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mango
newbie
Posts: 17
Reg: 09-29-04
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11-25-08 08:34 AM - Post#71477
In response to jogo
No. The nose out of joint is due to the messages that are sent when it appears that the school seems to endorse one particular religion.
What messages do you think that sends to children who believe something else?
What messages do you think that sends to children who are believers of the religion represented?
If you are upset about the lack of a Christmas party, step outside of the box and consider how you would feel if your child's December party was a Diwali celebration.
If you are upset about the lack of a Christmas concert, step outside of the box and consider how you would feel if your child spent months preparing for a Ramadan concert.
If you are upset about the lack of a Christmas themed play, step outside the box and consider how you would feel if the school play was one about the story of Hanukkah.
Would you want your child speaking words and celebrating ideas that are not consistent with your beliefs (in the context that it appears that those are the singular beliefs that the school seems to endorse)?
Personally, I believe that being inclusive in representing several different religions sends a message of tolerance. Only representing one sends a message of intolerance and exclusiveness. Representing none seems sadly sterile and doesn't help our kids become more comfortable with what makes us unique. Sharing our differences at an early age makes those differences less threatening as our kids grow up. It makes them better global citizens.
But perhaps you have some different ideas. What a great opportunity to discuss them and come upon a solution that works for our kids in Allen.
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allen
enthusiast
Posts: 873
Reg: 12-02-05
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11-25-08 08:42 AM - Post#71480
In response to jogo
I imagine it was allowed because it was an optional fundraiser - kids weren't required to have a picture with Santa as part of their school day activities. SHHHHH though because I'm sure some parent will complain that their cultural holiday icon wasn't represented .
That's weird, I thought Jesus was the symbol of Christmas, not Santa.
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jogo
enthusiast
Posts: 657
Reg: 08-31-05
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11-25-08 08:51 AM - Post#71482
In response to mango
Your points are the exact reasons that alot of schools have done away with holiday programs - there is simply no way to please everyone.
I don't like it but I think the solution most schools have is just to go with the holiday theme - winter, snow, snowflakes, etc. for their holiday parties.
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jogo
enthusiast
Posts: 657
Reg: 08-31-05
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11-25-08 08:54 AM - Post#71483
In response to allen
 I didn't state that Santa was the only symbol of Christmas but I've never seen kids lining up at malls to get their picture made with baby Jesus.
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workingmom
enthusiast
Posts: 706
Loc: Allen, TX
Reg: 06-03-04
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11-25-08 09:33 AM - Post#71488
In response to mango
Personally, I believe that being inclusive in representing several different religions sends a message of tolerance. Only representing one sends a message of intolerance and exclusiveness. Representing none seems sadly sterile and doesn't help our kids become more comfortable with what makes us unique. Sharing our differences at an early age makes those differences less threatening as our kids grow up. It makes them better global citizens.
Great post! I agree wholeheartedly. I'd love to see a celebration of a variety of belief systems. When we were in Virginia the concerts/assemblies stopped being Christmas but they did instead go to multi-cultural/multi-beli ef concerts and they were wonderful. Don't know if that's still happening since we've (happily) been Texans for more than 8 years now.
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allensince1979
enthusiast
Posts: 1154
Loc: allen, Tx. usa
Reg: 06-18-01
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11-25-08 12:09 PM - Post#71506
In response to mango
Personally, I believe that being inclusive in representing several different religions sends a message of tolerance. Only representing one sends a message of intolerance and exclusiveness. Representing none seems sadly sterile and doesn't help our kids become more comfortable with what makes us unique. Sharing our differences at an early age makes those differences less threatening as our kids grow up. It makes them better global citizens.
I agree what a Great Post, I'm so glad my kid's had the opportunity to live abroad for a while and learn to respect instead of fearing or being confussed about other cultures. I think some type of International holiday celebration would be great.
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lynn
member
Posts: 50
Loc: Allen
Reg: 03-08-05
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11-25-08 08:40 PM - Post#71544
In response to allensince1979
The standard in the lower grades is to teach holidays/traditions celebrated in different cultures and countries. I know that at least two schools do that within the classrooms, if not in school-wide presentations. It is absolutely each Principal's decision how this is to be handled in the school.
We do need to keep in mind that as educators we have a responsibility to teach that our country (and certainly our community) is full of many different cultures and ideals.
My church is having a wonderful Christmas program for the young children.
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campbellfam
enthusiast
Posts: 1495
Loc: Allen, TX, USA
Reg: 07-12-02
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11-26-08 10:02 AM - Post#71582
In response to lynn
Sometimes it's un-cooperative music teachers...
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AHSClassof93
newbie
Posts: 12
Loc: Allen, TX
Reg: 11-17-08
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11-26-08 12:03 PM - Post#71595
In response to mango
You're absolutely right, you can't please everyone. Even if there were a program a creative music teacher worked hard on to include every feasable holiday/cultural celebration, there are still the folks whose religion prohibits any celebration that would be offended. I've seen kids who refused the birthday cake and punch of a classmate because of their religion. How do you counteract that?
I too have fold memories of these programs from my own childhood that I wish for my own children. However, this is the America we live in, where separation of church and state has been aurgued in the Supreme Court and it would seem school districts prefer to remain on the side of caution to avoid legal action.
I'm afraid in this day and age, we'll all have to count on a place of worship to provide our children with these memories we treasure from our own childhoods.
However, here's the question I ask, I recall end of school programs, and American history programs. Where are they? These can't offend anyone I would think. Ahhh we're back to the whole, "There's not enough time, etc for this." aren't we? Hmmmmmmm......
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sco
enthusiast
Posts: 1255
Loc: allen,TX USA
Reg: 10-26-02
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11-28-08 09:03 PM - Post#71698
In response to AHSClassof93
I actually think the reason schools don't do holiday programs as much these days has more to do with academic pressure, and the size of schools, more than the multi-cultural issue. Part of the issue is that it takes a lot of time to put a program together. That is time the regular classroom teachers don't want to give up with all the testing pressure they face. In the month of November the elementary school had 6 days of benchmark tests. Combine that with 5 vacation days and there isn't much room left for planning a holiday program. The music teachers only see the kids once a week which makes it hard for them to put something together as well. I agree that it is sad. I have made my opinion on testing pretty clear at other times.
The other issue has to do with the size of the schools. If you have 800 kids, plus 1000 parents, it is pretty hard to find a place to put on a program that will fit everybody.
My middle school child is in band. The band is doing a winter concert and they are including several traditional Christmas songs. The band directors don't have to deal with academic pressure because at that level the band hour is dedicated only to band.
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Mommytotwo
newbie
Posts: 9
Reg: 05-22-08
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11-30-08 05:06 PM - Post#71785
In response to mango
I loved Christmas programs growing up and it’s sad to see that has to end. I used to love singing holiday songs in the choir at school. This country was founded on Christianity and it’s really hurts me to see we have to give that up because we might offend someone. I don’t mind that my children learn about other cultures or learn other languages what bothers me that I have to give up my culture and beliefs. I wonder if I went to another country to live if they would give up their traditions and religions for me and my family because I might get offended?
I was shocked last year to see my kids learn about other countries holiday traditions in school but then was not able to talk about Christmas? I’m so glad that we can still take part in the programs at church, it’s just a shame we now have to have Fall break and Winter break instead of Thanksgiving break and Christmas break. When do all the changes stop?
Merry Christmas and God bless!
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denisew
enthusiast
Posts: 6021
Loc: Allen, TX
Reg: 02-18-02
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11-30-08 06:30 PM - Post#71793
In response to Mommytotwo
I know the Ford Orchestra is putting on their "winter" concert in a couple weeks and they will be playing some holiday songs. That will be Dec. 11 at 7 pm at the Lowery auditorium if anyone wants to attend.
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