allen
enthusiast
Posts: 873
Reg: 12-02-05
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11-28-08 09:44 AM - Post#71663
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/bus /st...
lcr's gonna have a field day with this one 
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Al C
enthusiast
Posts: 1617
Loc: Allen, TX
Reg: 02-16-01
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11-28-08 11:09 AM - Post#71667
In response to allen
Oh goody ... more shopping. Good thing Allen is using more land for shopping instead of the less important things like schools. It's no wonder schools go up in controversial areas.
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shiraz
enthusiast
Posts: 254
Loc: allen, tx, usa
Reg: 05-23-02
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11-28-08 11:43 AM - Post#71668
In response to Al C
It sounds like a glorified strip center.
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lcr2004
enthusiast
Posts: 1058
Reg: 03-10-05
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11-28-08 02:49 PM - Post#71680
In response to shiraz
Four quotes that sum the whole thing up:
"I can't imagine how it will be financed," Terry Montesi, the developer of Watters Creek, said about Appleseed. "I would be very skeptical of any national specialty retailer leasing at any project but ours and MGHerring's [the developer of the Village at Allen], given our visibility and accessibility to the freeway."
Future Appleseed projects in the Dallas-Fort Worth area are slated for Colleyville, McKinney and Plano. None of the sites, including Allen, is financed yet.
Allen has three retail centers within 3.5 miles of the Appleseed site, and two of them have opened only their first phases
"I wouldn't say that we're overbuilt," said Ogden "Bo" Bass, director of planning and development for Allen. "We're catching up. I don't believe, based on the profile of our city and the area, that we're in a position to turn anything away."
There is a huge disconnect between those in the city planning/EDC and what the market really is.
What a joke - I can't believe anyone would expect this to ever happen. Bridge St in McKinney just died and GGP is trying to sell the 230+ acres of land it bought a few years back (Belz Center). There's won't be any more large-scale developments in the area for a while - until all of the new space at Stacy and Bethany is absorbed.
Lack of financing options + lack of retailers looking to expand = no new developments
| Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them you're a mile away and you have their shoes. |
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lcr2004
enthusiast
Posts: 1058
Reg: 03-10-05
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11-28-08 04:32 PM - Post#71684
In response to shiraz
It sounds like a glorified strip center.
That's what it is...
Also, I believe this development is "planned" to go in at Exchange/Greenville (northwest corner). Commercial Bank of TX owned that land (still shown that way on the tax rolls).
I'm sure the developer looked at the 10% occupied center across the street (next to the gas station) and thought the area was just completely underserved for retail...I mean, it has only been 2 years since that center was completed!
| Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them you're a mile away and you have their shoes. |
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asmile4u
enthusiast
Posts: 261
Loc: Allen
Reg: 04-20-08
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11-29-08 05:48 AM - Post#71712
In response to Al C
Oh goody ... more shopping. Good thing Allen is using more land for shopping instead of the less important things like schools. It's no wonder schools go up in controversial areas.
Everyone is entitled to their opinions, so here's mine. Al, do you really think the school district could afford the northwest corner of Exchange/Greenville? Do you think, based on the demographics of the area, that location would be either feesable, practical or even logical for a school? I think not. Would you rather have an tax-exempt facility on a high dollar location or one which is helping to keep from raising our tax rates by contributing to our tax base? I suppose if it were a Bass Pro Shop going in, all you guys would be dancing in the streets.
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asmile4u
enthusiast
Posts: 261
Loc: Allen
Reg: 04-20-08
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11-29-08 05:56 AM - Post#71713
In response to lcr2004
"I wouldn't say that we're overbuilt," said Ogden "Bo" Bass, director of planning and development for Allen. "We're catching up. I don't believe, based on the profile of our city and the area, that we're in a position to turn anything away."
There is a huge disconnect between those in the city planning/EDC and what the market really is.
lcr, if you have privy to certain contacts, and your posts from time to time indicate so, you would know your observation is off base. They just don't go and throw darts at a board when they're planning 5-10-15 years down the road. We watch channel 16 quite often to see both P&Z and the city council in their deliberations and discussions. It's obvious there is much thought and research given to future planning.
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asmile4u
enthusiast
Posts: 261
Loc: Allen
Reg: 04-20-08
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11-29-08 06:00 AM - Post#71714
In response to lcr2004
I'm sure the developer looked at the 10% occupied center across the street (next to the gas station) and thought the area was just completely underserved for retail...I mean, it has only been 2 years since that center was completed!
What would you rather have in that spot? A field that gets mowed twice a year or a nice well-maintained structure that is contributing to our tax base? Besides, there really isn't anything else that would fit that spot.
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asmile4u
enthusiast
Posts: 261
Loc: Allen
Reg: 04-20-08
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11-29-08 06:03 AM - Post#71715
In response to Al C
Oh goody ... more shopping. Good thing Allen is using more land for shopping instead of the less important things like schools. It's no wonder schools go up in controversial areas.
Please give our school board a little more credit than that.
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asmile4u
enthusiast
Posts: 261
Loc: Allen
Reg: 04-20-08
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11-29-08 06:07 AM - Post#71716
In response to allen
If's there's ever been a restaurant or store or facility or decision made by the city or school, or for that matter anything about our great city that you like, please share that info with us.
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jogo
enthusiast
Posts: 657
Reg: 08-31-05
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11-29-08 09:42 AM - Post#71722
In response to asmile4u
Maybe it's safe to say that allen, at least, likes allenonline 
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sco
enthusiast
Posts: 1255
Loc: allen,TX USA
Reg: 10-26-02
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11-29-08 10:15 AM - Post#71724
In response to Al C
Oh goody ... more shopping. Good thing Allen is using more land for shopping instead of the less important things like schools. It's no wonder schools go up in controversial areas.
If they built a school at the corner of Exchange and Greenville parents would be going crazy about how unsafe a location it is. The only thing that corner is suitable for is retail or office space. One could argue as to whether this is the right time to be putting in new retail. Nothing has happened yet other than the land purchase. I suspect it will be a while before they actually build.
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readingu
member
Posts: 57
Reg: 02-08-04
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11-29-08 10:53 AM - Post#71725
In response to shiraz
Why don't you go to the City's online video and watch the council proceedings and then decide what it is. I am all with commercial enterprise that may add to the community. Just what do you thinks should go in there? All street corners use to get were gas stations. Today it either a bank or drug store.
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shiraz
enthusiast
Posts: 254
Loc: allen, tx, usa
Reg: 05-23-02
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11-29-08 12:33 PM - Post#71728
In response to readingu
Why don't you go to the City's online video and watch the council proceedings and then decide what it is. I am all with commercial enterprise that may add to the community. Just what do you thinks should go in there? All street corners use to get were gas stations. Today it either a bank or drug store.
I've given no thought to what I think should go in there. I have no opinion on what should go in there.
And there is no need to watch the city's online videos to see what's going in; the DMN article clearly states:
The Appleseed developments will provide services people need – from food to dry cleaning to a dentist – closer to home to maximize time and shorten commutes, Mr. Sheldon said.
That's a strip center. It's interesting that DMN took enough interest to give the developer space on the front page of the business section. Based on the headline alone it sounded like major retail.
Edited by shiraz on 11-29-08 12:35 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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rw
member
Posts: 105
Reg: 10-11-01
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11-29-08 04:19 PM - Post#71731
In response to shiraz
But if you attend or watch the P&Z meetings, or go back to watch the archived videos...it will give you a much better idea of what the process was to get this approved...and how it is a unique development...if it ever gets built.
The tools are available to help all of us be more informed...
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lcr2004
enthusiast
Posts: 1058
Reg: 03-10-05
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11-29-08 05:10 PM - Post#71735
In response to asmile4u
"I wouldn't say that we're overbuilt," said Ogden "Bo" Bass, director of planning and development for Allen. "We're catching up. I don't believe, based on the profile of our city and the area, that we're in a position to turn anything away."
There is a huge disconnect between those in the city planning/EDC and what the market really is.
lcr, if you have privy to certain contacts, and your posts from time to time indicate so, you would know your observation is off base. They just don't go and throw darts at a board when they're planning 5-10-15 years down the road. We watch channel 16 quite often to see both P&Z and the city council in their deliberations and discussions. It's obvious there is much thought and research given to future planning.
I'm not saying they don't think them out - I'm saying their assumptions and beliefs about how development works is flawed. Cities often take the attitude of "build it and they will come". In reality it's much more complex, and building it doesn't mean anyone is ever going to show up or stick around long term. It's going to get even more interesting at those meetings in a few more years when the discussion is not about new developments, but about attracting tenants to fill the large vacant spaces around town.
And as to your comment about having an empty structure or an empty field that is privately maintained and mowed....well, maybe I'm in the minority here, but I'd rather have the field. Rents remain higher for other developments in the area that way, and that benefits tax revenues every bit as much as the difference between an empty improved structure and an empty field.
It's irrelevant anyway - I know this group, and they've been peddling this type of development around DFW for a few years now...if they couldn't get them done 2 years ago when the market was blazing hot and credit was easy to get, then they're not going to get it now. A year or two from now when there are posts on here saying things like "wow, there's a lot of empty space in the Village at Allen/Fairview" and "why didn't the additional phases of the Village/Watters Creek ever get built" don't be surprised.
| Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them you're a mile away and you have their shoes. |
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LocalRealtor
enthusiast
Posts: 699
Reg: 02-20-02
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11-29-08 05:58 PM - Post#71737
In response to lcr2004
"I wouldn't say that we're overbuilt," said Ogden "Bo" Bass, director of planning and development for Allen. "We're catching up. I don't believe, based on the profile of our city and the area, that we're in a position to turn anything away."
There is a huge disconnect between those in the city planning/EDC and what the market really is.
lcr, if you have privy to certain contacts, and your posts from time to time indicate so, you would know your observation is off base. They just don't go and throw darts at a board when they're planning 5-10-15 years down the road. We watch channel 16 quite often to see both P&Z and the city council in their deliberations and discussions. It's obvious there is much thought and research given to future planning.
I'm not saying they don't think them out - I'm saying their assumptions and beliefs about how development works is flawed. Cities often take the attitude of "build it and they will come". In reality it's much more complex, and building it doesn't mean anyone is ever going to show up or stick around long term. It's going to get even more interesting at those meetings in a few more years when the discussion is not about new developments, but about attracting tenants to fill the large vacant spaces around town.
And as to your comment about having an empty structure or an empty field that is privately maintained and mowed....well, maybe I'm in the minority here, but I'd rather have the field. Rents remain higher for other developments in the area that way, and that benefits tax revenues every bit as much as the difference between an empty improved structure and an empty field.
It's irrelevant anyway - I know this group, and they've been peddling this type of development around DFW for a few years now...if they couldn't get them done 2 years ago when the market was blazing hot and credit was easy to get, then they're not going to get it now. A year or two from now when there are posts on here saying things like "wow, there's a lot of empty space in the Village at Allen/Fairview" and "why didn't the additional phases of the Village/Watters Creek ever get built" don't be surprised.
I couldn't have said it better. Yes, I'd take a field to mow over an empty building. Pushing down rental rates and having a lot of empty buildings around town isn't a good idea.
Some of the cities are like public companies. The public companies always focus on growth and neglect the future...all because of the push for 'now, now, now'. Same with the cities, you see a push for development even in times of stagnation or heaven forbid times of 'decline'.
I don't think this project will get off the ground.
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Pollyanna
enthusiast
Posts: 581
Reg: 08-16-04
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11-29-08 06:54 PM - Post#71738
In response to LocalRealtor
What's wrong w/having an empty field? That's what makes this a great little town. Why does everyone corner have to offer retail or a service?
Where we lived in Dallas (White Rock Lake) it could be a couple of miles or so to get to your local grocery and all the services were built around there, big strip centers, not little strip centers on every corner.
You're right, it's sad to see empty space e.g. Allen Heights/Main St., and Greenville where the only tenant is the Sheer Ego salon.
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kellyf
enthusiast
Posts: 1032
Reg: 05-21-07
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11-29-08 07:21 PM - Post#71740
In response to Pollyanna
I liked our little field at Alma and Exchange. But alas, it is being built on. At least it is a nice looking building that will be for kiddos. I am just glad it is not a strip center.
Kelly
| Be nice to everyone. You may be the last person they speak to. |
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lcr2004
enthusiast
Posts: 1058
Reg: 03-10-05
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11-29-08 09:59 PM - Post#71756
In response to Pollyanna
My career depends on the commercial real estate market being strong, but the last thing I want to see is Allen turned into another Plano or Garland, with vacant structures on 3 of 4 corners at every major intersection due to overbuilding.
Developers have an incentive to throw anything and everything up - it's called a development fee. Cities need to be the safety valve for overbuilding, and right now I'm questioning the city's ability to handle that responsibility.
Drive to Frisco in a year and you'll see what can happen with too much retail in one area. A little open space in the city never hurt anyone.
| Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them you're a mile away and you have their shoes. |
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