DrivinTooFast
enthusiast
Posts: 1880
Reg: 02-20-08
|
06-06-14 03:55 PM - Post#168984
In response to DrivinTooFast
I do not have a Master's degree in public Administration but I do have a few other pieces of parchment from a few universities that indicate I did something smart sometime in the past so let me give the city some FREE advise about process....
There are roughly 24K water meters in the city - 24K little eyes on watching how much water is used. 24K eyes working 24 hours a day through weekends, holidays and sick time. Keep this in mind we will come back to this.
There are 6 human water police (one of which is officer XXXX) with a fleet of trucks that require health benefits, diesel, training, retirement benefits, tires, sick days, holidays off, maintenance and equipment replacement. Plus water princess, her paper based archaic system, lack of any modern technology and probably a Prius because that's what water princesses drive. In general, the water police stop after 6pm patrolling (shhh don't tell anyone)until the hot months when they get overtime for weekend and night shifts. Plus Officer 653A has no way to determine if the water coming out of the sprinkler is NTMWD water or reclaimed water from rain collection or grey water collection.
I am estimating that the water princess process takes about $650K to $800K per year of your money to administer and police per year. For 6 part time eyes. This does not include any municipal costs from the courts.
For your $700K per year, you get what?? <<insert cricket noise here>>
But that's bureaucracy right?? 
Here is a FREE process that needs no additional staff and no onerous process to obtain your goal of reduced water consumption (because that's the goal right, not creating headcount to make your kingdom bigger). I am going to utilize the most power tool in the world - free markets and capitalism (something woefully missing from government). Hold on here we go...
NO WATER POLICE
However a steeply sloped tiered water pricing such that the base 10K gallons is rather cheap, then each proceeding 10K gallons of monthly use the price goes up by some utilization factor 1.6, 2.0 whatever.
Use a lot of water, pay a LOT of money. Use very little water, pay a normal amount. Fix that 15K gallon water leak in your toilet your bill goes down. Run your sprinklers less pay less.
Right now, if I was running off the city's system, I would water the HE double hockey sticks every two weeks to make up for the two week drought my landscaping was going to be legislated to by the water princess. I would water on thursday even though it rained on wednesday because my next time to let the liquids fly is two weeks away. This scarcity behavior makes people water MORE on their watering days because they feel they have to in order to keep their plants alive.
A market driven system wiht 24K eyes watching says - manage your water well and pay less. DAHH!! Or is that too simplistic for a Masters in Public Administration.
Edited by Community Manager on 06-06-14 08:11 PM. Reason for edit: Forum privacy rules
|
StacyLynn624
enthusiast
Posts: 1095
Loc: West Side
Reg: 09-24-04
|
06-06-14 04:45 PM - Post#168985
In response to DrivinTooFast
He said,"We want it that way"... "We want to make the process difficult so people will not violate the water policy".
What an idiot! You only know the process AFTER you receive the ticket. So its not a deterrent to using more water or whatever. WOW. We've got a smart one there! We should re-elect that person or give them a raise or whatever. Jeez!
Innocent until proven guilty by a court of law.
This is like in Plano when you get a speeding ticket. They don't require the cops to go to court. So you're basically guilty 100% of the time. The cop could make something up and give you a ticket and you'd still be guilty. Seems illegal to me.
If you want to deter people from using more water than they should, or whatever, MAKE IT COST MORE TO USE. Duh. I like my water bill low. But seriously, we had friends with leaks in their pool, and they filled it for $125 - including their normal usage for bathing & drinking. That's not punitive at all. I think they said it was 17,000 gallons that month.
If you use 17,000, it should be $500, not $125. THAT is how you change behaviors. Not by bureaucratic hoops to jump through that no one knows about. Idiots.
|
SB
enthusiast
Posts: 1554
Reg: 09-07-03
|
06-06-14 04:55 PM - Post#168986
In response to DrivinTooFast
You admitted you were guilty. You said the wrongful watering was caused by an electrical problem with your irrigation system. So, why trash all these city employees for a problem you caused? That's just wrong. The water problem is real ans could very well get much worse. There isn't room to be generous and excuse every violator who feels they have a good excuse.
|
jogo
enthusiast
Posts: 1475
Reg: 08-31-05
|
06-06-14 08:08 PM - Post#168988
In response to DrivinTooFast
Right now, if I was running off the city's system, I would water the HE double hockey sticks every two weeks to make up for the two week drought my landscaping was going to be legislated to by the water princess. I would water on thursday even though it rained on wednesday because my next time to let the liquids fly is two weeks away. This scarcity behavior makes people water MORE on their watering days because they feel they have to in order to keep their plants alive.
 That is exactly my thoughts about the water restrictions - it is actually causing people (me!) to water more often than I would if I could decide when my lawn needed water without someone telling me when my once every two week watering day is.....wasteful and annoying.
|
Al C
enthusiast
Posts: 5931
Loc: McKinney/Allen, TX
Reg: 02-16-01
|
06-06-14 08:25 PM - Post#168989
In response to SB
You admitted you were guilty. You said the wrongful watering was caused by an electrical problem with your irrigation system. So, why trash all these city employees for a problem you caused? That's just wrong. The water problem is real ans could very well get much worse. There isn't room to be generous and excuse every violator who feels they have a good excuse.
Maybe because of the way they treated him? Just a hunch.
He admitted his timer was off. It's not about the fine ... it's about the attitudes he encountered. That's what I'm getting out of this topic.
|
Community Manager
member
Posts: 97
Reg: 08-20-13
|
06-06-14 08:31 PM - Post#168990
In response to DrivinTooFast
DTF:
I am not questioning your reasons for having problems with the City of Allen. I understand how anyone can feel frustrated navigating through any city' structure. And as an American you have every right to question the system supported by your tax dollars. But I am asking you to please not belittle city workers for following the procedures required by their job.
In one of your earlier posts you mentioned a city worker number or name or something. This is not in good faith with the forum rules concerning privacy. Yes, public information is okay to post, but on these forums we choose to have private information protected. This why you can post your opinion here and select whether you want to list your real name or be anonymous. I have deleted these references to the city worker and ask that you please refrain from further occurrences. Thanks for your cooperation in advance.
The watering situation is terrible for all. For myself, I have taken the advise or some of my fine neighbors in these forums on how to combat the assault on my landscape. Check it out you may find it helpful.
See this topic
I bet the city wished, as do we, that we did not have drought conditions at all. Please be prepared that it could get worse before better. The weather is hot and we all know which direction the temperature is going. Please remember the one temperature we can control is our own personal temperature.
|
DrivinTooFast
enthusiast
Posts: 1880
Reg: 02-20-08
|
06-07-14 05:59 AM - Post#168992
In response to SB
You admitted you were guilty. You said the wrongful watering was caused by an electrical problem with your irrigation system. So, why trash all these city employees for a problem you caused? That's just wrong. The water problem is real ans could very well get much worse. There isn't room to be generous and excuse every violator who feels they have a good excuse.
Never admitted guilt - said my sprinkler system was running off hours due to power failures of recent storms. Never said I was using city water - it was reclaimed water. The water coming out of the sprinklers was coming from 500+ gallon rain storage tanks
http://www.uline.com/images/transparent.gif
I buried during pool construction.
Hey. I had the backhoe for the whole day might as well use it. Capture over 4000 square feet of surface plus I ran another capture from a low spot in my land. The water is pumped into the sprinkler system using sump pumps bypassing the NTMWD water. I CAN use NTMWD water but that's very unusual. I run the sprinklers on the same schedule as the city to prevent local water natzis from mistakenly bringing in the dogs. Apparently the dogs came on their own. When I lived in Florida we ran all our sprinkler systems off the water in the canals when you lived on the water. I mimicked that system. It was a great benefit since the canal water did not contain iron that stained the stucco homes that were running off city water. Same principle here, except I do not have a canal do I have to connect my gutters, drains and downspouts to the tanks - Which is VERY easy by the way.
I am also looking into grey water reclamation but that is a little more difficult here.
So am I guilty or not?? I don't know. But it is not the job of the city to make this little show dog jump through hoops, wasting tax payer dollars PRIOR to determining if I am even guilty. That's mismanaged government. If for some reason I needed additional water I could use the NTMWD water by running a hose into the tanks and filling them. That does not happen until late summer if at all.
It is also incumbent, I believe, to make the government as efficient as possible to maintain the public trust and public stewardship. I believe the water department and the city manager's department do not share that belief. I'll leave the city council out for now since the legislation passed by them was presented by staff who in my mind were creating a self serving bureaucracy rather than using the most power force in the world - A free market.
I think a LOT about water conservation, far more than the average homeowner and it is not fair to be dragged through this beatdown process filled with pitfalls, threats of water termination and possible permanent record of a class B misdemeanor on the PRESUMPTION of guilt. No citizen whether guilty or not should be presumed to be guilty - That's Government 101 - at least here in the USA (or so I thought).
This morning I am sitting back sipping coffee, enjoying the lovely display of 2000 square feet of NON-Irrigated, unmowed, unfertilized backyard wild flowers while the rest of the neighborhood yanks the cord of their lawnmowers.
The city should be ENCOURAGING the implementation of systems like mine rather than worrying about the accuracy or inaccuracy of chronographs. My system is much more expensive to implement than just letting the city spigot run because the water rates even of the egregious offenders are set too low to affect behavior. It is my belief we could even give away the first 10K gallons of water and still make up the difference by dramatically increasing the higher utilization customers.
Oh and maybe I can save the good citizens of allen $700K per year in the process.
Edited by DrivinTooFast on 06-07-14 06:23 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
|
DrivinTooFast
enthusiast
Posts: 1880
Reg: 02-20-08
|
06-07-14 06:14 AM - Post#168993
In response to Community Manager
DTF:
I am not questioning your reasons for having problems with the City of Allen. I understand how anyone can feel frustrated navigating through any city' structure. And as an American you have every right to question the system supported by your tax dollars. But I am asking you to please not belittle city workers for following the procedures required by their job.
In one of your earlier posts you mentioned a city worker number or name or something. This is not in good faith with the forum rules concerning privacy. Yes, public information is okay to post, but on these forums we choose to have private information protected. This why you can post your opinion here and select whether you want to list your real name or be anonymous. I have deleted these references to the city worker and ask that you please refrain from further occurrences. Thanks for your cooperation in advance.
The watering situation is terrible for all. For myself, I have taken the advise or some of my fine neighbors in these forums on how to combat the assault on my landscape. Check it out you may find it helpful.
See this topic
I bet the city wished, as do we, that we did not have drought conditions at all. Please be prepared that it could get worse before better. The weather is hot and we all know which direction the temperature is going. Please remember the one temperature we can control is our own personal temperature.
Public officials do NOT get anonymity. That's part of the public trust. I have the right to publicly confront my accuser - This case officer (Square root of 426409 + the first letter of the alphabet) in an open court of law. If they do not like the heat get out of the public trust kitchen.
Edited by DrivinTooFast on 06-07-14 06:21 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
|
SB
enthusiast
Posts: 1554
Reg: 09-07-03
|
06-07-14 07:16 AM - Post#168994
In response to DrivinTooFast
Guilty is watering off hours. The extenuating details such as the water source is something to work through the system. There has to be a system, right? Leave the public to their own with a limited, shared resource and there will be abuse and over use. Water is too valuable a resource to allow use to be uncontrolled. Trashing city staff in a public forum doesn't advance your cause one drop. It just suggests an arrogance or assumption of privilege that only diminishes potential support.
"Never admitted guilt - said my sprinkler system was running off hours due to power failures of recent storms. Never said I was using city water - it was reclaimed water. The water coming out of the sprinklers was coming from 500+ gallon rain storage tanks"
|
rw
member
Posts: 619
Reg: 10-11-01
|
06-07-14 09:05 AM - Post#168995
In response to DrivinTooFast
May think about a sign that states you are using captured water...like the folks/businesses have for their well water...
|
pup
enthusiast
Posts: 3941
Reg: 03-29-06
|
06-07-14 09:33 AM - Post#168997
In response to SB
When the system assumes guilt instead of presuming innocence, there is a problem.
When the system is overrun by mindless bureaucrats bent on punishment and wielding their power, instead of sound, thoughtful enforcement, there is a problem.
|
SB
enthusiast
Posts: 1554
Reg: 09-07-03
|
06-07-14 09:55 AM - Post#168998
In response to pup
When there is an assumption that local government staff are a bunch of mindless bureaucrats then there is a breakdown of civility and citizenship.
|
Allensince1993
enthusiast
Posts: 521
Reg: 06-06-12
|
06-07-14 10:33 AM - Post#168999
In response to SB
When there is an assumption that local government staff are a bunch of mindless bureaucrats then there is a breakdown of civility and citizenship.
Totally agree.
If there are exceptions to the rule (using reclaimed water) then you'll have your day in court. It's all a matter of due process.
James DeLaGarza
Realtor/Broker since 1992 |
|
Community Manager
member
Posts: 97
Reg: 08-20-13
|
06-07-14 12:21 PM - Post#169000
In response to DrivinTooFast
Public officials do NOT get anonymity. That's part of the public trust. I have the right to publicly confront my accuser - This case officer (Square root of XXX + the XXX letter of the alphabet) in an open court of law. If they do not like the heat get out of the public trust kitchen.
Of course you have the right to publicly confront your accuser. What you don't have is the right to do is anything you want on this website. Re-read the Forum Rules. In addition, do not try and circumvent these rules with your cute little math formula. This approach to a person's privacy has been in place for 16 years and it is respected by thousands of Allen residents during this time.
Leave the names and numbers and descriptions of the city workers out of your quest to bash the city's watering requirements. Especially, the workers that had nothing to do in writing these provisions.
When I read about your situation with the AM/PM debacle, I though after the initial shock, your emotions would be directed to explaining your situation in an understanding manner to the appropriate people at the city. Your situation seemed like an honest mistake to me. However, with the approach you are taking you may find it difficult to get a sympathetic ear.
Your approach and position is your business. And, I do wish you luck going through the system and hope for your sake that the powers that be understand what happened.
Please follow the guidelines for these forums.
Thank you
|
pup
enthusiast
Posts: 3941
Reg: 03-29-06
|
06-07-14 01:34 PM - Post#169001
In response to SB
Is it civil to make the process as painful as possible?
Is that the mark of a good government?
There is a breakdown....and it is at city hall.
|
civicminded
Community Guide
Posts: 9576
Loc: Lone Star State
Reg: 04-24-02
|
06-07-14 01:54 PM - Post#169002
In response to DrivinTooFast
Challenging to fight city hall, 3ven when they are wrong.
|
SB
enthusiast
Posts: 1554
Reg: 09-07-03
|
06-07-14 03:12 PM - Post#169003
In response to pup
Is it civil to make the process as painful as possible?
Is that the mark of a good government?
There is a breakdown....and it is at city hall.
I'll suggest that the problem is a water shortage. The problem is worsened by folks who choose to ignore the conservation restrictions because they are special or because they don't understand the consequences of the shortage getting worse. The City Manager doesn't have time for personal conversations with 90,000 people about this issue and so there are city staff tasked with explanation and enforcement. These folks are trying to insure that all of us have water to use come September and October.
|
StacyLynn624
enthusiast
Posts: 1095
Loc: West Side
Reg: 09-24-04
|
06-07-14 05:11 PM - Post#169005
In response to SB
If she's using reclaimed water, she should be able to water whenever she wants. The water coming from her sprinklers isn't coming from the water towers around town. So the restrictions don't apply to her. By not running her sprinklers, the only water she's conserving is the water in her own tanks.
SB, did you turn the water off at your main yet?
|
StacyLynn624
enthusiast
Posts: 1095
Loc: West Side
Reg: 09-24-04
|
06-07-14 05:12 PM - Post#169006
In response to SB
And don't believe everything that you read. Some Government employees are all about power and control over the little citizen.
We won't always be in a drought, it will rain again, and someday, the city and Water District will work together and know how many permits are being pulled so they can plan better. Maybe.
|
StacyLynn624
enthusiast
Posts: 1095
Loc: West Side
Reg: 09-24-04
|
06-07-14 05:16 PM - Post#169007
In response to starrlac
DTF, perhaps you should contact Steve Stoler or start tweeting? That might get the wheels turning. Maybe an attorney will see your tweets and offer to take your case.
|
