mgrayar
enthusiast
Posts: 3859
Reg: 09-25-09
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06-19-14 07:58 PM - Post#169223
In response to Cheatham Parent
Never said the situation didn't suck. I was just passing along the information.
I wasn't replying to your post, just commenting on the interviews on the 5:00 news.
Learn more about Cystic Fibrosis and how you can help at:
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Jeremy
enthusiast
Posts: 454
Loc: Allen, Tx
Reg: 06-20-11
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06-20-14 07:37 AM - Post#169232
In response to mgrayar
Now… if you are an architecture/engineering based firm… and you have a nationally recognized engineering forensics firm make a statement like… These are primarily engineering failures,” Nelson Forensics executive director of operations Ryan T. Chancey said in an Allen ISD news release. “While the concourse is the largest and most serious area, we did find failures in the structural design throughout the stadium. … I guess you can say that is a pretty good sign that you need to find a new line of work.
PBK said in a short statement that it will respond “swiftly and diligently” to implement the repairs. In more than 30 years, the company has designed more than 3,550 school structures and 45 stadiums nationwide, according to the statement.
Sounds to me like Nelson Forensics just found 3,595 more clients… I wonder if Allen can get a referral fee to help offset the income lost while the stadium is being repaired.
Also… someone help me understand. If it was determined that it was bad architecture… should PBK be solely responsible? If Pogue was just following the APPROVED AND PERMITTED PLANS shouldn’t they get a pass? Seems like someone in the City needs to double check their rubber stamp.
Edited by Jeremy on 06-20-14 07:50 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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DrivinTooFast
enthusiast
Posts: 1874
Reg: 02-20-08
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06-20-14 12:07 PM - Post#169238
In response to Jeremy
A post implementation forensic report from a third party should be part of ALL over $5MM. The initial report cost us $100K, PENNIES in a $60MM project.
This should be SOP going forward.
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txd2
member
Posts: 26
Loc: Allen
Reg: 06-08-09
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06-20-14 12:39 PM - Post#169239
In response to DrivinTooFast
I have been observing this dialogue here and in the news.
I have yet to see any mention of the following potential culpable parties and further potential financial risks.
1. Building inspectors ! Did they collect their permit fees ?
Would they not be the ones that would have to "sign off" for each inspection ? What happened there ? Do they not have some ownership in providing approvals at each step in the project and ending up where we are now ?
2. As we went into the market to borrow money for this project it was assigned a rating for the associated credit risk.
As this continues to unfold it does not bear well for the bond rating agencies to have all of this attention drawn to our great city of Allen. If, they dig deeper what else might they find and if so they are warranted in lowering the rating on the issued bonds, does anybody understand what fiscal impact this might have on our current outstanding debt and most certainly the future of raising capital. Well let me tell you that they are NOT GOOD. In the end our city's ability to effectively pay back the bondholders their funds has a very strong correlation to the credit rating associated with the bonds.
End of my rant and look forward to the response on the forum.
Thank You.
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Stirling
enthusiast
Posts: 175
Reg: 03-06-12
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06-20-14 04:22 PM - Post#169240
In response to txd2
My response:
Hay bales and diesel. I hear there is a company that can perform removal services of structures with cracks.
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vrs
enthusiast
Posts: 2845
Loc: Allen, Texas
Reg: 04-20-00
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06-20-14 08:51 PM - Post#169243
In response to txd2
Municipal and school debt is secured with the assessed value on taxable property in the district. The rates for existing debt are what they are. There will be no impact on existing debt.
Future debt will also not be impacted by this. Bond ratings and cost of debt have to do with assessed values, fund balance, payment history, general market conditions, etc. The big financial institutions who purchase the bonds are interested in the ability to pay, not what the particular project may have been or even how well executed.
Even if one says the stadium is now worth 50 million instead of 60 million, it is not taxable property and does not impact the ability to raise money to service debt - existing or future.
Lots of concerns surrounding the situation, but I don't believe bond ratings are among them.
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vrs
enthusiast
Posts: 2845
Loc: Allen, Texas
Reg: 04-20-00
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06-20-14 09:12 PM - Post#169245
In response to Jeremy
Also… someone help me understand. If it was determined that it was bad architecture… should PBK be solely responsible? If Pogue was just following the APPROVED AND PERMITTED PLANS shouldn’t they get a pass?
Let me preface this with the comment that I have no special knowledge beyond what is in the public domain on this topic.
It continues to surprise me that most folks in the vigilante posse have a rope around Pogue's neck while PBK gets to sit quietly on the sideline. Each report that comes out does make it more clear that this was primarily an engineering failure. But it was not entirely an engineering failure. In some places, Pogue did not execute the flawed plan flawlessly.
So now one can imagine the insurers are haggling over the delta between "primarily" and "entirely". 70/30? 80/20? 90/10? This is an argument that is into 7 figures I am sure.
The thing is (and good news for Allen) this situation is not playing out in a vacuum. Frisco ISD just passed a three quarters of a BILLION dollar capital projects bond election. I am sure Pogue and PBK both want some of that.
PBK is the architect on a 68 million dollar multipurpose athletic facility/stadium in Katy ISD - Lance Hindt's former next door neighbor. That project failed the ballot last year but is going to the voters again.
Let's pick a number. 10 million dollars to fix the stadium. PBK is a 100 million dollar a year net income company. Pogue has something like 20 million dollars in insurance on this project.
Both companies already offered to fund escrow to start repairs but their insurers put the kibosh on that. Admission of liability I am sure. But there is a point of pain where they may just do it out of pocket rather than lose access to major capital projects across the state. These companies can both afford to fix the stadium. What will do irreparable harm to their businesses is NOT fixing the stadium.
| Raisin cookies that look like chocolate chip are the reason I have trust issues. |
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cc
enthusiast
Posts: 873
Loc: Allen, tx
Reg: 01-09-01
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06-20-14 09:49 PM - Post#169246
In response to vrs
Thank you VRS for these thoughts. It does explain to me what I have been mulling over in my mind in regards to this situation.
The loss of potential business for both of these companies is mind boggling. A
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eddie
member
Posts: 47
Reg: 08-30-11
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06-20-14 10:01 PM - Post#169248
In response to cc
I don't know much, but I will defer to vrs. Online engineers, architects, lawyers and accountants are like me.
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shiraz
enthusiast
Posts: 594
Loc: allen, tx, usa
Reg: 05-23-02
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06-21-14 05:54 AM - Post#169250
In response to eddie
more uh-oh for PBK:
http://www.wfaa.com/news/education/Big-pr oblems-id...
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txd2
member
Posts: 26
Loc: Allen
Reg: 06-08-09
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06-21-14 03:56 PM - Post#169255
In response to vrs
VRS,
Thank you for your reply. With respect, I will submit that there is something in the investment community called "sentiment" that is REAL. I have spent my entire career in the Financial Services / Banking (over 20+ years) arena and feel that my input here bears merit. I do not want to hit any panic buttons however the "ripple effect" will definitely apply to our great City of Allen. If you would like to explore / discuss this further please send me a PM and I would be happy to do so.
Have a Blessed Weekend.
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DrivinTooFast
enthusiast
Posts: 1874
Reg: 02-20-08
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06-22-14 10:51 AM - Post#169268
In response to txd2
I think most thought the issue was concrete not design related based on the initial report. Now that the truth is out that it was both Pougue and PBK with the majority falling on PBK, I think the stabs will fall on both.
However the byline story will have to trump the initial impact of the opening story to properly put the fire in the right spot.
PBK has a smarter PR/damage control firm and is lying low whereas Pougue is out trying to actively restore his company's credibility. PBK is more than happy to let Ben do the press conferences and take the heat. Ben needs a good PR firm and quick - every time he opens his mouth he reminds people that he is responsible. PBK is sticking to the PR script of NOT putting a face on the problem and downplaying the issue.
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vrs
enthusiast
Posts: 2845
Loc: Allen, Texas
Reg: 04-20-00
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06-23-14 08:55 PM - Post#169307
In response to txd2
Sorry for delayed response. Have been off the grid for a few days. No need for private messages. Shoot, I don't even know who you are.
In your earlier post you expressed concerns and asked for opinions. I offered one. You differ. No worries.
| Raisin cookies that look like chocolate chip are the reason I have trust issues. |
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