MissingChico
enthusiast
Posts: 2228
Reg: 02-13-06
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03-27-12 03:45 PM - Post#147148
In response to mgrayar
Funny you would mention that. Did you see the episode regarding the vaccine they're injecting into soldiers? Now the Army is investigating that same drug in earnest due to the recent shootings in Afghanistan.
| I get my news from the Comedy Central and my comedy from Fox News. |
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mgrayar
enthusiast
Posts: 3164
Reg: 09-25-09
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03-27-12 07:02 PM - Post#147159
In response to MissingChico
It is like clockwork. Law and Order has an episode based on nearly every major news store within weeks. They always have the disclaimer "not based on true events" or something to that extent.
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cp
enthusiast
Posts: 202
Reg: 12-14-11
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03-28-12 05:53 AM - Post#147165
In response to mgrayar
General response:
This may be re-wording some of what's already been discussed, but FWIW...
"The shooting of Florida teen Trayvon Martin (left) has drawn national attention to the incident with many commentators already drawing conclusions about guilt and innocence in the matter. New information and evidence in the case continues to feed the controversy."
http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/11334-n...
| "In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination..." -Samuel Langhorne Clemens, better known as Mark Twain |
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carygold
enthusiast
Posts: 4950
Reg: 05-30-08
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03-28-12 08:36 AM - Post#147168
In response to cp
I think the conclusions come from simple facts:
Zimmerman called the police
The police told him do not follow
Zimmerman did follow, with a gun, and a kid is dead.
I have to ask at this point, if the person doing the pursuing, got into a fight with the person he was perusing, who was standing their ground?
If a black man, the same age as Zimmerman, had followed a white kid, the same age as Trayvon, and the white kid was shot, we all know that the Black man would have been arrested at the scene until the facts were clear through an investigation.
All that anyone asks is why was Zimmerman's side of the story all that was needed at the scene of the killing of a young human?
Why was he not arrested for killing another human being until the facts could be investigated?
The assumptions grew from there.
If CEO's increased their pay at the same rate as Average Americans
their pay would average $1,384,890 not $10,621,000 |
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MissingChico
enthusiast
Posts: 2228
Reg: 02-13-06
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03-28-12 09:16 AM - Post#147170
In response to carygold
I think the conclusions come from simple facts:
Zimmerman called the police
The police told him do not follow
Zimmerman did follow, with a gun, and a kid is dead.
I have to ask at this point, if the person doing the pursuing, got into a fight with the person he was perusing, who was standing their ground?
If a black man, the same age as Zimmerman, had followed a white kid, the same age as Trayvon, and the white kid was shot, we all know that the Black man would have been arrested at the scene until the facts were clear through an investigation.
All that anyone asks is why was Zimmerman's side of the story all that was needed at the scene of the killing of a young human?
Why was he not arrested for killing another human being until the facts could be investigated?
The assumptions grew from there.
Obviously ALEC and the NRA failed to consider this when they wrote the legislation and the elected officials who rubber stamped it missed this as well.
| I get my news from the Comedy Central and my comedy from Fox News. |
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Jeremy
member
Posts: 83
Loc: Allen, Tx
Reg: 06-20-11
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03-28-12 09:36 AM - Post#147172
In response to carygold
I enjoy reading the posts on this site and have not been interested in replying to most things but this has my attention.
I believe that the media is trying to twist the facts and public opinion. For instance, if you look at any picture of the two it always shows Zimmerman in a mug shot for some reason and the "cute" young kid. The issue is that this "cute" young kid picture is 6 years old taken when this 17y/o was only 11. More recent pictures shown of him taken from his twitter account shows a much different person.
I agree that this could have all been avoided if he (Zimmerman) would have not carried a weapon on his neighborhood watch. I agree that no matter what the kid was suspended from school for or what time it was it did not justify his death and they are irrelevant to this case.
However, the police never told him not to follow. It was a dispatcher, which to my knowledge is not a law enforcement officer, and it was a suggestion by saying... "We don't need you to do that". Though it was a suggestion, it sounded like a good one to me and he should have stayed in his truck and let police check it out.
The facts that are listed in the post I'm replying to are labeled as "simple facts" but I can't believe they are that simple. The police in that city are working through this and hopefully will come to a conclusion. The one that I draw is that no matter what conclusion they come to, two families will never be the same.
Also, why is it ok for the "New Black Panthers" to put a bounty on his head? If it were reversed and it was the KKK putting a bounty on a black guy they would call it a lynch mob and it would be wrong and condemned by everyone. I think it was respectable of the kid's father to say that he does not condone that action and does not want them involved but the fact is that they are still involved, though against the family's wishes. A lot of people that are not directly involved are pushing this out of control. For instance that person in LA tweeting Zimmerman's alleged address to Spike Lee who tweeted it out. The problem was that it is the home of a couple in their 70's that have nothing to do with him and now they have been forced out of their home due to hate mail and threats. Irresponsible...
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MissingChico
enthusiast
Posts: 2228
Reg: 02-13-06
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03-28-12 10:05 AM - Post#147174
In response to Jeremy
I enjoy reading the posts on this site and have not been interested in replying to most things but this has my attention.
I believe that the media is trying to twist the facts and public opinion. For instance, if you look at any picture of the two it always shows Zimmerman in a mug shot for some reason and the "cute" young kid. The issue is that this "cute" young kid picture is 6 years old taken when this 17y/o was only 11. More recent pictures shown of him taken from his twitter account shows a much different person.
I agree that this could have all been avoided if he (Zimmerman) would have not carried a weapon on his neighborhood watch. I agree that no matter what the kid was suspended from school for or what time it was it did not justify his death and they are irrelevant to this case.
However, the police never told him not to follow. It was a dispatcher, which to my knowledge is not a law enforcement officer, and it was a suggestion by saying... "We don't need you to do that". Though it was a suggestion, it sounded like a good one to me and he should have stayed in his truck and let police check it out.
The facts that are listed in the post I'm replying to are labeled as "simple facts" but I can't believe they are that simple. The police in that city are working through this and hopefully will come to a conclusion. The one that I draw is that no matter what conclusion they come to, two families will never be the same.
Also, why is it ok for the "New Black Panthers" to put a bounty on his head? If it were reversed and it was the KKK putting a bounty on a black guy they would call it a lynch mob and it would be wrong and condemned by everyone. I think it was respectable of the kid's father to say that he does not condone that action and does not want them involved but the fact is that they are still involved, though against the family's wishes. A lot of people that are not directly involved are pushing this out of control. For instance that person in LA tweeting Zimmerman's alleged address to Spike Lee who tweeted it out. The problem was that it is the home of a couple in their 70's that have nothing to do with him and now they have been forced out of their home due to hate mail and threats. Irresponsible...
Jeremy, I completely agree with you perspective, however it may be impossible for you to see this situation from the eyes of an African American who has known a family member who was abused by the white majority. These wounds remain fresh and any incident such as this needs to be handled with extraordinary caution to avoid even the least bit of racism. Race relations in this country remain sketchy enough that an independent, impartial investigation should be mandatory. Having the New Black Panther's offering a bounty isn't good, but can you honestly blame them? The election of our first Black President has brought to light an incredible amount of racism that had remained just below the surface for years. I can't imagine being Black in this country and watching things slip so far backward. They have never gained ground being passive.
| I get my news from the Comedy Central and my comedy from Fox News. |
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carygold
enthusiast
Posts: 4950
Reg: 05-30-08
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03-28-12 10:12 AM - Post#147175
In response to Jeremy
I enjoy reading the posts on this site and have not been interested in replying to most things but this has my attention.
I believe that the media is trying to twist the facts and public opinion. For instance, if you look at any picture of the two it always shows Zimmerman in a mug shot for some reason and the "cute" young kid. The issue is that this "cute" young kid picture is 6 years old taken when this 17y/o was only 11. More recent pictures shown of him taken from his twitter account shows a much different person.
I agree that this could have all been avoided if he (Zimmerman) would have not carried a weapon on his neighborhood watch. I agree that no matter what the kid was suspended from school for or what time it was it did not justify his death and they are irrelevant to this case.
However, the police never told him not to follow. It was a dispatcher, which to my knowledge is not a law enforcement officer, and it was a suggestion by saying... "We don't need you to do that". Though it was a suggestion, it sounded like a good one to me and he should have stayed in his truck and let police check it out.
The facts that are listed in the post I'm replying to are labeled as "simple facts" but I can't believe they are that simple. The police in that city are working through this and hopefully will come to a conclusion. The one that I draw is that no matter what conclusion they come to, two families will never be the same.
Also, why is it ok for the "New Black Panthers" to put a bounty on his head? If it were reversed and it was the KKK putting a bounty on a black guy they would call it a lynch mob and it would be wrong and condemned by everyone. I think it was respectable of the kid's father to say that he does not condone that action and does not want them involved but the fact is that they are still involved, though against the family's wishes. A lot of people that are not directly involved are pushing this out of control. For instance that person in LA tweeting Zimmerman's alleged address to Spike Lee who tweeted it out. The problem was that it is the home of a couple in their 70's that have nothing to do with him and now they have been forced out of their home due to hate mail and threats. Irresponsible...
On your picture issue, I would bet Zimmerman has not provided the Media with his "cute" pictures, that's why you don't see them. Where as the parents have provide pictures of their son.
And I agree the New Black Panthers are not doing anyone any favors here. Their response should be illegal, in my opinion.
If CEO's increased their pay at the same rate as Average Americans
their pay would average $1,384,890 not $10,621,000 |
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Maringa
enthusiast
Posts: 331
Reg: 11-06-08
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03-28-12 10:18 AM - Post#147176
In response to carygold
There are several available pictures of Zimmerman available and they are not cute. They appear to be a mug shot. He appears hispanic for the most part, and news media clearly calls him as a white hispanic. This is where it gets interesting in terms of race or ethnic background. Many people are calling this white on black crime, and even this part of the story is not clear cut...People need to remember there is racism amongst all ethnic groups and not just white towards black...The thoughts/behavior behind all of this is driven, understandibly through many generations of irresponsible behavior (primarily by whites against blacks), but it has incorrectly driven improper, unjustfiable behavior between all groups.
The only conclusion that I have made (and it can still be wrong) is that this was initiated and completely mishandled by Zimmerman. He created the tragedy by making several cumulative mistakes. He made the improper judgement of who Martin was, and the best thing will be for a judge and jury to decide the appopriate penalty if guilty of any crimes...
Edited by Maringa on 03-28-12 10:31 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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MissingChico
enthusiast
Posts: 2228
Reg: 02-13-06
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03-28-12 10:28 AM - Post#147177
In response to Maringa
The picture of Zimmerman appears to be the one used when he was arrested for assaulting a police officer.
| I get my news from the Comedy Central and my comedy from Fox News. |
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MissingChico
enthusiast
Posts: 2228
Reg: 02-13-06
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03-28-12 11:02 AM - Post#147179
In response to MissingChico
In the NRA's never ending effort to create racial tension, they've introduced the hoodie jacket that conceals a handgun. What could possibly go wrong?
http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2012/03/27/4 5331...
| I get my news from the Comedy Central and my comedy from Fox News. |
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mgrayar
enthusiast
Posts: 3164
Reg: 09-25-09
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03-28-12 12:49 PM - Post#147187
In response to MissingChico
If the reports are true and Zimmerman was confronted as he approached his car, hit and taken to the ground, yelled for help, and had a scrum for his gun that was then used with deadly force, would that change anyone's thoughts?
It seems that we may not truly know what has occurred, who Trayvon and Zimmerman really are, and how this was truly handled by authorities.
We know what the media wants us to know right now. Maybe we should all keep an open mind and wait for facts, not the numerous articles of speculation already posted.
Learn more about Cystic Fibrosis and how you can help at:
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Everyone can make a difference! |
Edited by mgrayar on 03-28-12 12:50 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Joe Schirmer
enthusiast
Posts: 1325
Loc: SE Allen
Reg: 06-30-08
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03-28-12 12:58 PM - Post#147189
In response to mgrayar
If the reports are true and Zimmerman was confronted as he approached his car, hit and taken to the ground, yelled for help, and had a scrum for his gun that was then used with deadly force, would that change anyone's thoughts?
I still don't like the "Stand Your Ground" law. That is really the only thing I've made my mind up on.
It seems that we may not truly know what has occurred, who Trayvon and Zimmerman really are, and how this was truly handled by authorities.
We know what the media wants us to know right now. Maybe we should all keep an open mind and wait for facts, not the numerous articles of speculation already posted.
True, we don't want another Richard Jewell.
It looks like some people are already getting out of hand on this: Elderly Couple In Fear Over Spike Lee Tweet: Star erroneously linked Floridians to man who killed Trayvon Martin
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Jeremy
member
Posts: 83
Loc: Allen, Tx
Reg: 06-20-11
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03-28-12 12:59 PM - Post#147190
In response to mgrayar
I fully agree. The only person that actually knows what happened that night is Zimmerman. There is apparently an eye witness that came forward that night that actually backs his story. The police have also said that the evidence also backs his story. The other "witnesses" came forward after the fact. The police will eventually release their findings and if he is guilty he will receive his punishment and hopefully the parents will receive what they determine to be justice. If he is found to have acted in self defense and he is not charged with any crimes hopefully we will get an idea of the events that happened.
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MissingChico
enthusiast
Posts: 2228
Reg: 02-13-06
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03-28-12 01:27 PM - Post#147193
In response to Jeremy
I fully agree with Joe regarding the "Stand your ground" law. This is just a lose / lose situation all the way around. This will certainly be a hard pill to swallow for Black America if Zimmerman is not charged. If ever there was a more regrettable chain of events. I wouldn't be surprised if we hear of a Zimmerman suicide if this truly was a self defense situation. Who could live with this cloud hanging over their head?
| I get my news from the Comedy Central and my comedy from Fox News. |
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carygold
enthusiast
Posts: 4950
Reg: 05-30-08
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03-28-12 05:04 PM - Post#147201
In response to mgrayar
If the reports are true and Zimmerman was confronted as he approached his car, hit and taken to the ground, yelled for help, and had a scrum for his gun that was then used with deadly force, would that change anyone's thoughts?
It seems that we may not truly know what has occurred, who Trayvon and Zimmerman really are, and how this was truly handled by authorities.
We know what the media wants us to know right now. Maybe we should all keep an open mind and wait for facts, not the numerous articles of speculation already posted.
I would still wonder why this was not treated as a crime, evidence collected, "the torn shirt" which is now missing, the gun in question (is it a legal weapon?), any pictures of wounds on the body of Trayvon or on Zimmerman.
The police still have a duty to protect people, and gathering evidence protects both people involved as well as the city. I don't think any law should exempt the death of a person from being treated as a crime until the facts are discovered.
Most of all why were the parents not notified for 3 days, although Trayvon had the phone number to "Dad" in his cell phone and the parents called the police.
If CEO's increased their pay at the same rate as Average Americans
their pay would average $1,384,890 not $10,621,000 |
Edited by carygold on 03-28-12 05:05 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Jeremy
member
Posts: 83
Loc: Allen, Tx
Reg: 06-20-11
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03-28-12 09:17 PM - Post#147205
In response to carygold
On CNN.com there is a video of Zimmerman at the police station in handcuffs. It looks like, at least at the beginning, it was treated as a crime. I read that the investigator wanted to charge him but the state’s attorney said no. How do you know that evidence was not collected? I find it hard to believe that the police would not make an attempt to collect evidence. Just because it has not been released to the press doesn’t mean it is not there.
I didn’t hear about the family not being notified for 3 days. If that is true that is a mistake on the part of the police. Odd though since he was reportedly only 70 feet from his home. I may be mistaken though.
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civicminded
Community Guide
Posts: 9249
Loc: Lone Star State
Reg: 04-24-02
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03-28-12 09:31 PM - Post#147206
In response to Jeremy
I enjoy reading the posts on this site and have not been interested in replying to most things but this has my attention.
I believe that the media is trying to twist the facts and public opinion. For instance, if you look at any picture of the two it always shows Zimmerman in a mug shot for some reason and the "cute" young kid. The issue is that this "cute" young kid picture is 6 years old taken when this 17y/o was only 11. More recent pictures shown of him taken from his twitter account shows a much different person.
I agree that this could have all been avoided if he (Zimmerman) would have not carried a weapon on his neighborhood watch. I agree that no matter what the kid was suspended from school for or what time it was it did not justify his death and they are irrelevant to this case.
However, the police never told him not to follow. It was a dispatcher, which to my knowledge is not a law enforcement officer, and it was a suggestion by saying... "We don't need you to do that". Though it was a suggestion, it sounded like a good one to me and he should have stayed in his truck and let police check it out.
The facts that are listed in the post I'm replying to are labeled as "simple facts" but I can't believe they are that simple. The police in that city are working through this and hopefully will come to a conclusion. The one that I draw is that no matter what conclusion they come to, two families will never be the same.
Also, why is it ok for the "New Black Panthers" to put a bounty on his head? If it were reversed and it was the KKK putting a bounty on a black guy they would call it a lynch mob and it would be wrong and condemned by everyone. I think it was respectable of the kid's father to say that he does not condone that action and does not want them involved but the fact is that they are still involved, though against the family's wishes. A lot of people that are not directly involved are pushing this out of control. For instance that person in LA tweeting Zimmerman's alleged address to Spike Lee who tweeted it out. The problem was that it is the home of a couple in their 70's that have nothing to do with him and now they have been forced out of their home due to hate mail and threats. Irresponsible...
Welcome to the forum fun Jeremy. Unfortunately a few people in here, and some Media outlets, and people that like to exercise (join the latest marches) want new stories to keep their dream of unfair treatment alive. I haven't heard anything lately from the New black panther kittens you spoke of? Did they weigh in on this circus too? They're a ________ and_______, so don't worry too much about them.
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AA
enthusiast
Posts: 463
Loc: Allen, TX
Reg: 07-20-09
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03-28-12 10:29 PM - Post#147208
In response to civicminded
Why do people keep saying Z continued after TM after 911 operator (who had no jurisdiction to tell you to do anything) told him not to. Listen to the tape, read the transcripts. Z stopped chasing without a grumble exactly 2 seconds after 911 told him to stop. How is that overzealous as everyone keeps saying?
To sum the night up, there was only one law broke that night. TM attacking Z. Which led to self defense including deadly force which IS legal.
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vm7mm
enthusiast
Posts: 1383
Loc: Allen Tx usa
Reg: 08-12-04
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03-28-12 10:31 PM - Post#147209
In response to AA
It's too bad that all of us don't carry a pen in our shirt pocket that records video...
Edited by vm7mm on 03-28-12 10:32 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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