asmile4u
enthusiast
Posts: 774
Loc: Allen
Reg: 04-20-08
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03-28-12 10:37 PM - Post#147210
In response to carygold
I haven't heard about his parents not being notified until 3 days after he was shot. One would think that at 70 feet away his parents would hear a gunshot and all the commotion. Where were they? I'll have to wait and gather more information before I buy into the 3 day notification theory.
As far as Zimmerman or anyone being arrested, in the United States constitution there is the matter of due process which protects all citizens from rush judgements. I think it's best if we let the due process take its course. Innocent until proven guilty should still the path taken. Or if one is pursuing guilty until proven innocent with racial overtones, perhaps taking a deep breath and stepping back is the best course of action to take at this time.
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carygold
enthusiast
Posts: 4959
Reg: 05-30-08
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03-28-12 11:15 PM - Post#147211
In response to asmile4u
I think its obvious that if Zimmerman, who was on his way home from the store and not acting as a neighborhood watch at the time, would have waited in his car rather than pursuing Trayvon with a gun none of this would have happened.
911: told Zimmerman police were on their way and not to pursue Travon. Zimmerman continued to follow Trayvon including running after him, that is on the tape.
Police did not administer a drug and alcohol test or an immediate background check on Zimmerman, although they did both on Trayvon Martin.
Zimmerman is on video in the police station, no blood on him at all in the video. He was never treated by paramedics.
There are conflicting reports on this...
Trayvon Martin in morgue 3 days as 'John Doe' after mom reported him missing
I think the evidence speaks for itself, but we'll see what the courts say.
If CEO's increased their pay at the same rate as Average Americans
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civicminded
Community Guide
Posts: 9254
Loc: Lone Star State
Reg: 04-24-02
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03-29-12 07:11 AM - Post#147216
In response to AA
I've yet to hear the story, but know it doesn't need to be national news. That just makes people join in before they know what they're joining. 
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AA
enthusiast
Posts: 463
Loc: Allen, TX
Reg: 07-20-09
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03-29-12 07:14 AM - Post#147217
In response to carygold
I think its obvious that if Zimmerman, who was on his way home from the store and not acting as a neighborhood watch at the time, would have waited in his car rather than pursuing Trayvon with a gun none of this would have happened.
911: told Zimmerman police were on their way and not to pursue Travon. Zimmerman continued to follow Trayvon including running after him, that is on the tape.
Police did not administer a drug and alcohol test or an immediate background check on Zimmerman, although they did both on Trayvon Martin.
Zimmerman is on video in the police station, no blood on him at all in the video. He was never treated by paramedics.
There are conflicting reports on this...
Trayvon Martin in morgue 3 days as 'John Doe' after mom reported him missing
I think the evidence speaks for itself, but we'll see what the courts say.
Wow, you have a lot of wrong info that can be proven wrong. And it's because of people like you and the media that continue to share this crap that people want to have Zimmerman's head instead of looking at it through judicial eyes.
Read the transcripts, here is the link:
http://phoebe53.wordpress.com/2012/03/26/zimmerman...
I'll sum it up:
@ 0:00 start of call
@ 2:08 Zimmerman: "He's running"
@ 2:24 911: "Are you following him"
@ 2:25 Zimmerman: "yeah"
@ 2:26 911: "ok, we don't need you to do that"
@ 2:28 Zimmeran: "ok" (continues having a conversation for the next almost 2 minutes and not running as people say)
@ 4:07 Call ended
So like I said, 2 seconds after 911 SUGGESTED to stop, he did and finished making his report.
I am confused which it is. Did they know or not know who TM was until 3 days later. Because you said they immediately did a background check on him. Who did they background check? John Doe? Plus I have proof that they DID know who it was the night of. On the police report that was made up that night, it specifically says "Trayvon Benjamin Martin". Here is that for you to glance over
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&am; p;q=zim...
This police report proves a couple other of your statements wrong. #1, It is in the report that Z had a wet back from being on his back in the grass (meaning somebody on top of him like the witness said) and that he was bloodied on the nose and back of head. I have seen the video at the police station. While in the garage, you see one officer checking out the back of his head. When they go into the office you can see his nose area is all black and blue. Are you implying that the police lied on the police report and then continued to feed of that lie by pretending to look at his head on the video and using some makeup to make his face look black and blue? Pretty far fetched. #2, the report also states that he was cuffed and put in the back of the cruiser to where paramedics treated him. A further report says that he went to the hospital the following day for more extensive check-up.
The report also states from Z that while TM was on top of him he was "yelling for someone to help me, but noone would help me". Sure sounds like the yelling that you hear from the neighbors 911 calls that the Martin family insist that it is coming from TM, not Z. And I believe this quote from witness "John" (who is terrified for his life to come out of the shadows) follows up with Z's report.
"The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: 'help, help…and I told him to stop and I was calling 911," he said.
Trayvon Martin was in a hoodie; Zimmerman was in red.
The witness only wanted to be identified as "John," and didn't not want to be shown on camera.
His statements to police were instrumental, because police backed up Zimmerman's claims, saying those screams on the 911 call are those of Zimmerman.
"When I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point," John said
In case you haven't heard them, I encourage you to, here are ALL the recorder 911 calls. Including Zimmerman (who in my eyes was calm, collective and helpful the whole time) and all the neighbors reporting a "disturbance". In those disturbance calls, is where you can hear Z yelling for help.
http://www.pagunblog.com/2012/03/17/911-tape ...
To sum it up, I ask you to completely get the media's images out of your head. This was not a grown man wearing county orange attacking a cute boy wearing Hollister red. Both these pictures are 4-7 years old. In reality, TM is an in-shape 6'4" 140lbs young man and Z is an out of shape 5'9" 250lbs man. Not exactly the David vs Goliath that the media is making it out to be. Especially with the track record on TM that has come out since this story has broke
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Jeremy
member
Posts: 83
Loc: Allen, Tx
Reg: 06-20-11
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03-29-12 07:47 AM - Post#147218
In response to AA
Thank you for doing the due-diligence to research before giving your opinion and providing information that can be found on record somewhere. It is very helpful. I just wish more people out there following this tragic story would do the same.
I'm still just shocked that Spike Lee refuses to apologize to the elderly couple for wrongly naming their address as Zimmermans. The guy in LA that originally sent the tweet to Spike Lee has privately apologized to the couple but apparently won't send out a tweet correcting the issue. That is just dangerous.
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AA
enthusiast
Posts: 463
Loc: Allen, TX
Reg: 07-20-09
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03-29-12 08:02 AM - Post#147219
In response to Jeremy
Spike Lee is going to get sued the crap out of. Fortunate for him the older couple is not looking to do that right now because they don't want to be in the middle of the circus. But due to him wanting to make a stand by sharing any hear/say info he had, now an elder couple cannot even go home in fear of their lives.
For Sharpton and Jackson, I really wish somebody would just deport them. They are the cause of all racial hate crimes in this nation. When the King family (yes, THAT king family. The one that those two idolize), is urging you to stop and stay out of this, then that has to mean you are doing wrong.
http://news.yahoo.com/alveda-king-sharpton- jackson...
For the New Black Panther Party. I don't know how these people are not in prison. I didn't know we are now in the wild west again to where you can publicly put a bounty on somebody's head. This group is not secretive about their hatred and wanting to cause harm to whites, hispanics and law enforcement. How is this any different than KKK?
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Joe Schirmer
enthusiast
Posts: 1325
Loc: SE Allen
Reg: 06-30-08
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03-29-12 08:38 AM - Post#147220
In response to Jeremy
I'm still just shocked that Spike Lee refuses to apologize to the elderly couple for wrongly naming their address as Zimmermans.
Spike Lee has finally apologized.
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carygold
enthusiast
Posts: 4959
Reg: 05-30-08
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03-29-12 08:44 AM - Post#147222
In response to AA
I'll sum it up:
@ 0:00 start of call
@ 2:08 Zimmerman: "He's running"
@ 2:24 911: "Are you following him"
@ 2:25 Zimmerman: "yeah"
@ 2:26 911: "ok, we don't need you to do that"
@ 2:28 Zimmeran: "ok" (continues having a conversation for the next almost 2 minutes and not running as people say)
@ 4:07 Call ended
So like I said, 2 seconds after 911 SUGGESTED to stop, he did and finished making his report.
Posting links to NRA sites is not a credible reference in my mind.
I have heard the actual tapes, Zimmerman said ok, but he did continue to pursue Trayvon... there is no dispute on this fact and never has been. Zimmerman also said... "These a##holes always get away," as he was in pursuit and just before he killed Trayvon.
I think his intent was clear.
Zimmerman has no Medical records indicating any injuries that would indicate his life was in danger, nor was he treated by paramedics.
One attorney said Zimmerman injuries are consistent with being punched in the nose and falling backwards.
Wouldn't you think if he was being beaten so bad that he had to pull a gun he would need some medical attention.
The Zimmerman attorney said Zimmerman had a broken nose... yet Zimmerman had not received any medical attention.
The question now is who was standing their ground, Trayvon the one being pursued by some self appointed nut case that out weighed Trayvon by at least 100 pounds or Zimmerman who pursued someone for no reason?
THIS IS THE BIG QUESTION...
What distance was Zimmerman from Trayvon when he shot him, since that he has no blood on him, not his own blood nor Trayvons?
If Zimmerman would have stayed in his car or at least minded his own business, Trayvon would still be alive. Trayvon was committing no crime.
Zimmerman needs to be put away for life. We are now on our way to opening the door to a wild, wild west, where people will start a fight just shoot someone and yell I'm standing my ground.
It was ABC news that reported that Trayvon was in the morgue 3 days, before parents were notified. Joe Scarborough on MSNBC said the same thing.
If CEO's increased their pay at the same rate as Average Americans
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MissingChico
enthusiast
Posts: 2228
Reg: 02-13-06
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03-29-12 09:08 AM - Post#147223
In response to carygold
It appears the NRA site took the page down. Considering the NRA was part of the writing of the "Stand your ground" bill, I give little credence to anything they have to say. The NRA feeds on gun violence to inject fear into the population which just creates more of the same. The only relevant facts are that an innocent kid was pursued because of his looks and in this case he simply looked Black. Had Zimmerman's prejudices not been in play here, this kid would still be alive. This may or may not be a crime, however it was prejudice that started this terrible incident and that's going to be very painful to the Black community who is sick to death of the profiling that puts Black men at the front of every line headed for detention.
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MissingChico
enthusiast
Posts: 2228
Reg: 02-13-06
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03-29-12 09:21 AM - Post#147224
In response to AA
I think its obvious that if Zimmerman, who was on his way home from the store and not acting as a neighborhood watch at the time, would have waited in his car rather than pursuing Trayvon with a gun none of this would have happened.
911: told Zimmerman police were on their way and not to pursue Travon. Zimmerman continued to follow Trayvon including running after him, that is on the tape.
Police did not administer a drug and alcohol test or an immediate background check on Zimmerman, although they did both on Trayvon Martin.
Zimmerman is on video in the police station, no blood on him at all in the video. He was never treated by paramedics.
There are conflicting reports on this...
Trayvon Martin in morgue 3 days as 'John Doe' after mom reported him missing
I think the evidence speaks for itself, but we'll see what the courts say.
Wow, you have a lot of wrong info that can be proven wrong. And it's because of people like you and the media that continue to share this crap that people want to have Zimmerman's head instead of looking at it through judicial eyes.
Read the transcripts, here is the link:
http://phoebe53.wordpress.com/2012/03/26/zimmerman...
I'll sum it up:
@ 0:00 start of call
@ 2:08 Zimmerman: "He's running"
@ 2:24 911: "Are you following him"
@ 2:25 Zimmerman: "yeah"
@ 2:26 911: "ok, we don't need you to do that"
@ 2:28 Zimmeran: "ok" (continues having a conversation for the next almost 2 minutes and not running as people say)
@ 4:07 Call ended
So like I said, 2 seconds after 911 SUGGESTED to stop, he did and finished making his report.
I am confused which it is. Did they know or not know who TM was until 3 days later. Because you said they immediately did a background check on him. Who did they background check? John Doe? Plus I have proof that they DID know who it was the night of. On the police report that was made up that night, it specifically says "Trayvon Benjamin Martin". Here is that for you to glance over
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&am; p;q=zim...
This police report proves a couple other of your statements wrong. #1, It is in the report that Z had a wet back from being on his back in the grass (meaning somebody on top of him like the witness said) and that he was bloodied on the nose and back of head. I have seen the video at the police station. While in the garage, you see one officer checking out the back of his head. When they go into the office you can see his nose area is all black and blue. Are you implying that the police lied on the police report and then continued to feed of that lie by pretending to look at his head on the video and using some makeup to make his face look black and blue? Pretty far fetched. #2, the report also states that he was cuffed and put in the back of the cruiser to where paramedics treated him. A further report says that he went to the hospital the following day for more extensive check-up.
The report also states from Z that while TM was on top of him he was "yelling for someone to help me, but noone would help me". Sure sounds like the yelling that you hear from the neighbors 911 calls that the Martin family insist that it is coming from TM, not Z. And I believe this quote from witness "John" (who is terrified for his life to come out of the shadows) follows up with Z's report.
"The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: 'help, help…and I told him to stop and I was calling 911," he said.
Trayvon Martin was in a hoodie; Zimmerman was in red.
The witness only wanted to be identified as "John," and didn't not want to be shown on camera.
His statements to police were instrumental, because police backed up Zimmerman's claims, saying those screams on the 911 call are those of Zimmerman.
"When I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point," John said
In case you haven't heard them, I encourage you to, here are ALL the recorder 911 calls. Including Zimmerman (who in my eyes was calm, collective and helpful the whole time) and all the neighbors reporting a "disturbance". In those disturbance calls, is where you can hear Z yelling for help.
http://www.pagunblog.com/2012/03/17/911-tape ...
To sum it up, I ask you to completely get the media's images out of your head. This was not a grown man wearing county orange attacking a cute boy wearing Hollister red. Both these pictures are 4-7 years old. In reality, TM is an in-shape 6'4" 140lbs young man and Z is an out of shape 5'9" 250lbs man. Not exactly the David vs Goliath that the media is making it out to be. Especially with the track record on TM that has come out since this story has broke
I'm curious why you're so intimidated by some bare chested pictures of some skinny black kid. You seem to be trying to assert he's some thug because he took some of the same pics every teenage boy takes. You seem to be taking this argument all over the internet and getting shot down. Curious what your motive is. Does this kid scare you that much? Zimmerman's pic was a previous arrest photo, yet you seem offended by it's use.
(Words of your own friend) I don't think that was the best comparison to bring up Alvin. So Martin sounds like he is built like Scott and Zimmerman is built like me. Who should win that wrestling match? No offense Scott, but I think you would need a gun or a golf club in a wrestling match with me or Alvin. Its possible they only had certain pictures? Zimmerman is in hiding and maybe the only one they could find is his mugshot at the time. Everything goes viral so fast, including the fake photo you posted above. This is a mess anyways and we will probably never know exactly what happened. None of the Witnesses saw everything, only bits and pieces.
Just curious what your agenda is.
| I get my news from the Comedy Central and my comedy from Fox News. |
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Jeremy
member
Posts: 83
Loc: Allen, Tx
Reg: 06-20-11
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03-29-12 09:35 AM - Post#147225
In response to MissingChico
Hopefully more information from some official will be out soon. The only information that I personally think is from a reputable source is from the funeral home person who said they could not see the entry or exit wound since there was an autopsy. He has first hand knowledge from seeing the body. I haven't seen the police reports and the media will speculate and get every "expert" on the subject they have to speculate. I agree that the distance he was shot will determine self defense. If he was shot a distance away, without a weapon in the kids hand, it would be hard to justify self defense. If he was shot while on top of Zimmerman, that is a different story. We have all seen CSI, NCIS, and Dexter and know that the technology exists (at least as dramatized on TV) to determine the location when he was shot. I think that our justice system will and can handle this and he doesn't need to be convicted in the court of public opinion. He made some stupid mistakes and needs to answer somehow for them.
Interestingly on CNN this morning they were discussing this... go figure. They had an ex law enforcement officer from NY (not sure how that applied to FL) talking about NY law. In NY, assaulting an officer is a felony and he would not be able to own a weapon. I wonder what degree of a crime it is in FL since that is what the mug shot is for?
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asmile4u
enthusiast
Posts: 774
Loc: Allen
Reg: 04-20-08
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03-29-12 09:44 AM - Post#147226
In response to carygold
Zimmerman needs to be put away for life.
You're 100% correct. Let's throw out the constitution and bill of rights and due process. No need for a trial. Think of the money it will save if he goes straight to prison today. Heck, we can save even more money if he's just executed. No 30 or 40 years on the taxpayer's tab.
There's no doubt he pulled the trigger. Now, let's give the system a chance to work.
None of us here are judge, jury and executioner. None of us here were there. We can thank the media and Jackson and Sharpton for the lynch mob mentality that so many seem to have. Let the Department of Justice do their job.
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AA
enthusiast
Posts: 463
Loc: Allen, TX
Reg: 07-20-09
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03-29-12 09:52 AM - Post#147227
In response to carygold
Posting links to NRA sites is not a credible reference in my mind.
would you like me to post the transcript from another source, they are all over and they follow the same story. It is a transcript after all. I could listen to the 911 tape and make a transcript myself based on what is said
I have heard the actual tapes, Zimmerman said ok, but he did continue to pursue Trayvon... there is no dispute on this fact and never has been.
source? because what I just supplied (the actual call, shows him stopping the chase and continuing the call
Zimmerman also said... "These a##holes always get away," as he was in pursuit and just before he killed Trayvon.
Again, listen to the tape. That was 20 senconds before TM even ran, so therefore Z was not chasing, and which puts it to more than 2.5 minutes before the end of the call. Nowhere near the time of the shooting
Zimmerman has no Medical records indicating any injuries that would indicate his life was in danger, nor was he treated by paramedics.
Apparently the police report I provided that says he DID is a lie then, right???
The question now is who was standing their ground, Trayvon the one being pursued by some self appointed nut case that out weighed Trayvon by at least 100 pounds or Zimmerman who pursued someone for no reason?
An (APPOINTED BY THE NEIGHBORHOOD) Neighborhood Watch Captian that does not feel obligated to watch the neighborhood? Makes sense. And btw, the reason was a shady looking kid walking in the rain looking at all the houses when there have been numerous break-in's lately. It is not against the law to question somebody. But it is against the law to attack somebody as TM did. Which is the ONLY law broke that night.
Zimmerman needs to be put away for life. We are now on our way to opening the door to a wild, wild west, where people will start a fight just shoot someone and yell I'm standing my ground.
Judicially, Zimmerman should walk a free man. But unfortunately he will not get a fair trial due to all the false media that have brainwashed any future jury members. People are thinking with their heart, not through the law.
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asmile4u
enthusiast
Posts: 774
Loc: Allen
Reg: 04-20-08
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03-29-12 10:03 AM - Post#147229
In response to AA
From looking back over several topics spanning months back, there are those who have a pattern of only his or her sources are the truth. No one else can have a reliable source.
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AA
enthusiast
Posts: 463
Loc: Allen, TX
Reg: 07-20-09
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03-29-12 10:05 AM - Post#147230
In response to MissingChico
I'm curious why you're so intimidated by some bare chested pictures of some skinny black kid. You seem to be trying to assert he's some thug because he took some of the same pics every teenage boy takes. You seem to be taking this argument all over the internet and getting shot down. Curious what your motive is. Does this kid scare you that much? Zimmerman's pic was a previous arrest photo, yet you seem offended by it's use.
(Words of your own friend) I don't think that was the best comparison to bring up Alvin. So Martin sounds like he is built like Scott and Zimmerman is built like me. Who should win that wrestling match? No offense Scott, but I think you would need a gun or a golf club in a wrestling match with me or Alvin. Its possible they only had certain pictures? Zimmerman is in hiding and maybe the only one they could find is his mugshot at the time. Everything goes viral so fast, including the fake photo you posted above. This is a mess anyways and we will probably never know exactly what happened. None of the Witnesses saw everything, only bits and pieces.
Just curious what your agenda is.
Intimidated? by what??? And guess what? He is a thug. Keep telling your PC self that he's not, but he has the track record of a thug. Drugs, violence and burglary. And was most likely on the path of a similar outcome or jail time. Agenda, is to open people's eyes and quit seeing this poor sweet boy wearing Hollister. Just another thug taken off the street IMO. Maybe the break-in's will go down now.
I have discussed this on Facebook with friends and just started on here. I didn't realize that constituted "all over the internet". And if you read my facebook further (which I'm not sure why you would search for me on there, but am flattered) you would see that there are plenty of supporters, and everyday that more truth about TM comes out, more and more Z supporters are appearing.
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MissingChico
enthusiast
Posts: 2228
Reg: 02-13-06
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03-29-12 10:24 AM - Post#147233
In response to AA
I'd say you're as quick to call a black kid a thug as others are to condemn Zimmerman. Your bias is just in a different direction. You've obviously spent little time getting to know enough Black people who live in a racist country. You look at him as a thug, yet he's just a kid who's done pretty much the same thing any white kid has done, but probably not caught since they aren't automatically suspect based on color, which is the very root of this unfortunate event.
| I get my news from the Comedy Central and my comedy from Fox News. |
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MissingChico
enthusiast
Posts: 2228
Reg: 02-13-06
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03-29-12 10:57 AM - Post#147236
In response to MissingChico
Perhaps the segment of our society who gets killed as suspected criminals the most are a bit gun shy due to stories like this one.
http://www.democracynow.org/2012/3/29/unarmed_bla c...
| I get my news from the Comedy Central and my comedy from Fox News. |
Edited by MissingChico on 03-29-12 10:58 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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mgrayar
enthusiast
Posts: 3164
Reg: 09-25-09
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03-29-12 11:07 AM - Post#147237
In response to MissingChico
I thought the report listed that the shooting took place near Zimmerman's car. If that is true, it kinda makes the medias story that Z continued to run after TM a little sketchy. Unless his car was named "Kitt" and could pursue the kid on his own as well.
I think this whole story is filled with speculation and media misdirection on both sides. I'm officially convinced we do not have nearly enough facts to make any judgement other than to let the authorities figure it out.
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Edited by mgrayar on 03-29-12 11:09 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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civicminded
Community Guide
Posts: 9254
Loc: Lone Star State
Reg: 04-24-02
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03-29-12 11:27 AM - Post#147239
In response to Jeremy
I don't tweet or text, or have an Iphone device, or know what a Spike Lee is (is that a real name?)? But anyone putting out another person's address for retaliation needs a visit from  . In fact the New panthers need some  because they must have been doing this 
Edited by civicminded on 03-29-12 11:27 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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AA
enthusiast
Posts: 463
Loc: Allen, TX
Reg: 07-20-09
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03-29-12 11:41 AM - Post#147240
In response to MissingChico
I'd say you're as quick to call a black kid a thug as others are to condemn Zimmerman. Your bias is just in a different direction. You've obviously spent little time getting to know enough Black people who live in a racist country. You look at him as a thug, yet he's just a kid who's done pretty much the same thing any white kid has done, but probably not caught since they aren't automatically suspect based on color, which is the very root of this unfortunate event.
Nope, I was not calling him a thug until the truth of his past came out. White, black, green or purple, if you have a past of possession of marijuana, graffiti, swinging at a bus driver, and carrying "12 items of women's jewelry and a flathead screw driver", you are a thug.
But this is just me "demonizing" this angel of a child's name.
By the way, I try my very best not to stereotype. But certain people make it VERY hard to do so. Stereotypes are usually stereotypes for a reason, nobody just makes it up.
Edited by A Achterhof on 03-29-12 11:45 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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